Amp 3 channel vs 5 channel

[Mike7300]

Is it worth the extra money for a 5 channel amp vs a 3 channel?

[callas01]

Originally Posted by Mike7300

Is it worth the extra money for a 5 channel amp vs a 3 channel?

depends, can your AVR handle powering the rear surrounds? I use only a 2-ch amp in my setup and the Marantz AVR carries the center and surrounds, the surrounds are fairly easy loads for me... the center maybe could use a inexpensive mono.... but that will come in time!


Most likely, 3-ch is fine.

[schan1269]

Depends what speakers you have...

Tiny and inefficient...

Or...

Large and very efficient.

[Spurrier Sucks]

Originally Posted by Mike7300

Is it worth the extra money for a 5 channel amp vs a 3 channel?

If you're going with Anthem then 3 is all you need. It will have more than enough power for the surrounds.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by schan1269

Depends what speakers you have...

Tiny and inefficient...

Or...

Large and very efficient.

This has nothing to do with the selection of choosing either a 3ch or 5ch amp.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by Johnny Vinyl

This has nothing to do with the selection of choosing either a 3ch or 5ch amp.

So "how much power do you need?" has nothing to do with buying however much power you need...

[Mike7300]

I think I'm more confused now.

I have PSB Imagine T2 Fronts, Center, and Imagine S Surrounds.

My plan is to get a new amp and preamp also....im just waiting for anthem to come out with their new 2015 model so i can have HDMI 2.0

Currently I have a Pioneer VSX 1018H-K....but again i don't plan to be using it past this year.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by Mike7300

I think I'm more confused now.

I have PSB Imagine T2 Fronts, Center, and Imagine S Surrounds.

My plan is to get a new amp and preamp also....im just waiting for anthem to come out with their new 2015 model so i can have HDMI 2.0

Currently I have a Pioneer VSX 1018H-K....but again i don't plan to be using it past this year.

buy a 2 or 3 channel amp, the anthem will power the rest just fine!!!

[ImPulSive]

Originally Posted by Mike7300

I think I'm more confused now.

I have PSB Imagine T2 Fronts, Center, and Imagine S Surrounds.

My plan is to get a new amp and preamp also....im just waiting for anthem to come out with their new 2015 model so i can have HDMI 2.0

Currently I have a Pioneer VSX 1018H-K....but again i don't plan to be using it past this year.

Let's see if we can clarify. PSB Imagine Speakers


T2, C Center, S Surround

SENSITIVITY (dB)
Anechoic Chamber 88 87 87
Typical Listening Room 90 89 89

IMPEDANCE (ohms)
Nominal 6 8 8
Minimum 4 4 4

INPUT POWER (Watts)
Recommended 20-300 20-150 20-150


Assuming that you have the C Center speaker, you never made that clear. The C center is the matching center to your T2 speakers.

So your PSB speakers are not very efficient, they are power hungry and require a beefy amp to drive them. The size of the amp depends on the room and how loud you have your music, movies. Seeing how your mains are twice as powerful as your center or surrounds, it is important to know if you plan on playing much music and other stereo content, or if you only plan on playing 5.1 stuff (TV, movies). If stereo (music) is in your future, you might want a beefy 2 channel amp for the mains and then drive the center and surrounds with something else. If just 5.1 set up, then you probably do not need a separate amp for your mains.

So now it comes back to all the points that others are making in this thread. You never specified your new equipment, so do you plan on getting:

• processor (no speaker connections just line outs) + amp, or

• a receiver + amp, or

• just a receiver?

You could get a 3 channel amp and then use a receiver to drive the surrounds. Surrounds do not get exercised as much as your mains and center will for 5.1 movies, so your could take that route. The only issue is that chances are your mains and center will be driven with more power than your surrounds. Assuming that this is the case, when you adjust the volume button the mains plus center will get incrementally more power and louder than your surrounds, so they will dominate a little more. The is a minor detail and perhaps not an issue for you. Or you could get a 5 channel amp and everything will be driven equally, all volume adjustments are incrementally the same.

I have 2 systems, a 5.2 in my family room and a 9.4 in my theater. For my family room I chose a XPA-2 300W/ch 2 channel amp for my mains, and a XPA-3 200W/ch 3 channel amp for the center and surrounds. I did it this way because I also use this system for stereo music, and since these Mirage OMD speakers are not that efficient, similar to your PSB, I wanted the ability to drive my mains harder for music and not turn on the amp driving the center and surrounds, not needed for stereo.

Now for my theater I wanted everything to be equal so when calibrated, all speakers get driven the same when I change the volume button. So there I used two XPA-5 200W/ch 5 channel amps, leaving one channel unused. Might be overkill, but I am using a processor not a receiver, so I need an amp for every speaker. Others may use a smaller amp for the surrounds and rears, I opted to balance it all out with the same wattage.

What you want or need depends on your budget and what you want to achieve. If you plan on buying a receiver then maybe buying a 2 or 3 channel amp would work best for you. All depends on the receiver, since they are rated for 2 channels driven, so do not expect that same wattage when driving more than 2 channels, it will be something less. If you have the money, then you could opt for a processor and a 5 channel amp. From what you have said, you plan on going the processor route, so in that case you must use external amp for all speakers driven, so you'd need a 5 channel amp, something like an Emotiva XPA-5 for example.

Not sure if that answered your question or not. This thread has been a little confusing to me. Do you plan on buying a receiver or a processor? That answer will tell us/you what external amplification you will need, if you can provide more information like model number for example. Do you have a specific model in mind? If so, please let us know.

[Mike7300]

Let me see if I can clarify. And yes the center speaker is the C center. I plan on using it mainly for 5.1 but I will play music sometimes also.

I would like to do either a processor and amp, or receiver and amp. Problem is I don't really understand what a processor does compared to a receiver....or the reasons for getting one as opposed to the other. So far I had always only had a receiver, so a processor would be new to me. If I undertand correctly, the speaker cables would just gets plugged into the amp and not the processor? And that would be the main difference? And what about prices of processors compared to receivers, would they be similar?

Some guy that came to look at my speakers suggested the MCA50 anthem amp with a marantz 7702 receiver.

[ImPulSive]

Originally Posted by Mike7300

Let me see if I can clarify. And yes the center speaker is the C center. I plan on using it mainly for 5.1 but I will play music sometimes also.

I would like to do either a processor and amp, or receiver and amp. Problem is I don't really understand what a processor does compared to a receiver....or the reasons for getting one as opposed to the other. So far I had always only had a receiver, so a processor would be new to me. If I undertand correctly, the speaker cables would just gets plugged into the amp and not the processor? And that would be the main difference? And what about prices of processors compared to receivers, would they be similar?

Some guy that came to look at my speakers suggested the MCA50 anthem amp with a marantz 7702 receiver.

Terminology:

Processor only handles the line level signals, stuff like HDMI, RCA jacks from CD player, etc. It handles all the decoding of signals to send out to the proper speaker, like decoding 5.1 from the HDMI input from your BluRay player. A processor does not have any amplification and it cannot drive speakers directly, it only outputs line levels for each channel in your system that must be connected to an external amplifier that in turn drives the speakers. For a 5.1 system the processor would output front left, center, front right, surround left, surround right and subwoofer. The subwoofer output goes to the RCA input jack on your powered subwoofer, the remainder go to an external amplifier that drives those speakers.

A receiver is a processor + amplifier in a single box. Some receivers do have line level outputs (aka pre-outs) but not all receivers have that capability.

If your receiver has pre-outs, then you can use them to connect to an external amplifier, and not use the speaker outputs on your receiver for those channels that you send to an external amplifier. You cannot/should not use both, either the drive the speaker via the receiver, or use that channel's pre-out to let an external amplifier drive that speaker.

For example, you might use a receiver to drive the surround speakers directly by connecting those speakers to the receiver, and then connect the pre-outs for front left, front right and center channels to an external amplifier that in turn will be used to drive those speakers.

The Marantz AV7702 is not a receiver, it is only a processor. It can only output line levels, and it does not have any amplification capabilities. It must be used in conjunction with an amplifier to complete the system.

Why choose a processor over a receiver? My answer might stir up some debate, but essentially keeping things discrete and separate tends to make them better. It all depends on how much of an audiophile you are and your long term plans. Would you choose a unit which has CD, AM/FM, cassette, BD and amplifier all in a single box? Or would you choose separate boxes for each function? By separating the signal processing from the amplifier you can get better performance by having less tradeoffs that might be made when putting both in a single unit. Processors tend to change every 3-5 years or so as new formats and features evolve, stuff like Dolby digital to DTS to DTS X and Atmos for example, along with features like Flac support, streaming, bluetooth, etc. If you are buying receivers, then every time you want to upgrade for a new format or feature, you have to buy another receiver which means buying a new processor and amplifier every time you upgrade. If you buy separates, you only need to buy a new processor as necessary. Amplifiers do not evolve much, no real need to change them out unless you need something with more power or more channels or higher quality. There is nothing really in an amplifier that goes obsolete, so you could buy the amplifier once and only replace it when needed, like 20 years later. And like I said before, receivers tend to make compromises so you rarely get as much in a receiver as you do if you buy a processor plus amplifier. Most receiver specs list their rated output power as driven into 2 channels. When you drive more than 2 channels, you end up getting less watts per channel than the stated stereo spec, something to watch out for, especially with your inefficient speakers. An amplifier should drive each channel independently to the stated output, so if you buy a 200 Watt per channel, 5 channel amplifier then each of the 5 channels will be able to drive at 200 watts, none of this BS of shared wattage that most receivers do.

The Anthem MCA50 is a fine amplifier, no doubt. Is it within your budget? Emotiva is much cheaper, may be it is a better fit? That decision is up to you. Your money, you decide. I went with Emotiva so I could save some money to use elsewhere.

That 225 wpc, 5 channel MCA50 lists for $3199 whereas the Emotiva XPA-5 200 wpc, 5 channel lists for $999 and its big brother the XPR-5 400 wpc 5 channel lists for $2299. There are more versions, just check the web site.

I am not going to debate which one is better, if one is over priced or another one is crap, everybody has their opinion and you can do your research and decide what works best for you. I think either of these would work for you or you could go with something else like a McIntosh MC205 200 wpc 5 channels, around $6500, if you have the money. Take your time to do the homework, research various units and decide what best fits your system needs.

[Spurrier Sucks]

Originally Posted by ImPulSive

Terminology:

Processor only handles the line level signals, stuff like HDMI, RCA jacks from CD player, etc. It handles all the decoding of signals to send out to the proper speaker, like decoding 5.1 from the HDMI input from your BluRay player. A processor does not have any amplification and it cannot drive speakers directly, it only outputs line levels for each channel in your system that must be connected to an external amplifier that in turn drives the speakers. For a 5.1 system the processor would output front left, center, front right, surround left, surround right and subwoofer. The subwoofer output goes to the RCA input jack on your powered subwoofer, the remainder go to an external amplifier that drives those speakers.

A receiver is a processor + amplifier in a single box. Some receivers do have line level outputs (aka pre-outs) but not all receivers have that capability.

If your receiver has pre-outs, then you can use them to connect to an external amplifier, and not use the speaker outputs on your receiver for those channels that you send to an external amplifier. You cannot/should not use both, either the drive the speaker via the receiver, or use that channel's pre-out to let an external amplifier drive that speaker.

For example, you might use a receiver to drive the surround speakers directly by connecting those speakers to the receiver, and then connect the pre-outs for front left, front right and center channels to an external amplifier that in turn will be used to drive those speakers.

The Marantz AV7702 is not a receiver, it is only a processor. It can only output line levels, and it does not have any amplification capabilities. It must be used in conjunction with an amplifier to complete the system.

Why choose a processor over a receiver? My answer might stir up some debate, but essentially keeping things discrete and separate tends to make them better. It all depends on how much of an audiophile you are and your long term plans. Would you choose a unit which has CD, AM/FM, cassette, BD and amplifier all in a single box? Or would you choose separate boxes for each function? By separating the signal processing from the amplifier you can get better performance by having less tradeoffs that might be made when putting both in a single unit. Processors tend to change every 3-5 years or so as new formats and features evolve, stuff like Dolby digital to DTS to DTS X and Atmos for example, along with features like Flac support, streaming, bluetooth, etc. If you are buying receivers, then every time you want to upgrade for a new format or feature, you have to buy another receiver which means buying a new processor and amplifier every time you upgrade. If you buy separates, you only need to buy a new processor as necessary. Amplifiers do not evolve much, no real need to change them out unless you need something with more power or more channels or higher quality. There is nothing really in an amplifier that goes obsolete, so you could buy the amplifier once and only replace it when needed, like 20 years later. And like I said before, receivers tend to make compromises so you rarely get as much in a receiver as you do if you buy a processor plus amplifier. Most receiver specs list their rated output power as driven into 2 channels. When you drive more than 2 channels, you end up getting less watts per channel than the stated stereo spec, something to watch out for, especially with your inefficient speakers. An amplifier should drive each channel independently to the stated output, so if you buy a 200 Watt per channel, 5 channel amplifier then each of the 5 channels will be able to drive at 200 watts, none of this BS of shared wattage that most receivers do.

The Anthem MCA50 is a fine amplifier, no doubt. Is it within your budget? Emotiva is much cheaper, may be it is a better fit? That decision is up to you. Your money, you decide. I went with Emotiva so I could save some money to use elsewhere.

That 225 wpc, 5 channel MCA50 lists for $3199 whereas the Emotiva XPA-5 200 wpc, 5 channel lists for $999 and its big brother the XPR-5 400 wpc 5 channel lists for $2299. There are more versions, just check the web site.

I am not going to debate which one is better, if one is over priced or another one is crap, everybody has their opinion and you can do your research and decide what works best for you. I think either of these would work for you or you could go with something else like a McIntosh MC205 200 wpc 5 channels, around $6500, if you have the money. Take your time to do the homework, research various units and decide what best fits your system needs.

All great advice! The great thing about the Anthem receivers is the specs are legit. That's real power numbers with all speakers being powered. The Anthem receivers have very good amp sections. Since you are unsure about an external amp and if you are going to go with an Anthem receiver I would just get the receiver first. Listen to it for a couple of months. If then you feel you need more power revisit this topic. You may find you have enough juice with just the receiver and save some cash. Good luck and enjoy!

[Mike7300]

My only thought on that is, since an amp can last 20 years or more it seems like a good investment....so that's why I'm leaning towards an amp either way.m

As far as processors, it seems like I'm very limited on choices if I want one with hdmi 2.0

[Spurrier Sucks]

Originally Posted by Mike7300

My only thought on that is, since an amp can last 20 years or more it seems like a good investment....so that's why I'm leaning towards an amp either way.m

As far as processors, it seems like I'm very limited on choices if I want one with hdmi 2.0

If you're waiting on 2.0 and think an amp is what you want go ahead and get an amp to use with your current receiver. If it makes a difference and you like it then you already have part of the pieces you need while you wait.

[Mike7300]

True, so to connect it I would just take out the speaker cables from my current receiver and put them into the amp, and then what kind of cable connects the amp and receiver?

[Spurrier Sucks]

Originally Posted by Mike7300

True, so to connect it I would just take out the speaker cables from my current receiver and put them into the amp, and then what kind of cable connects the amp and receiver?

First does your current receiver have pre outs? If so then all you need is an RCA connector for each channel your going to use with the amp.

[ImPulSive]

Originally Posted by Mike7300

True, so to connect it I would just take out the speaker cables from my current receiver and put them into the amp, and then what kind of cable connects the amp and receiver?

RCA coax cables the same kind that you would use to connect a CD player or a subwoofer. Look at preouts on your VSX 1018H-K for the style. Because these will be passing full frequency range use good quality cables. Subwoofer only needs 200 Hz so that cable can be lesser.

[Mike7300]

Are these good enough?
http://www.monoprice.com/mobile/Prod...1023603&cpnCd=

[ImPulSive]

http://www.monoprice.com/mobile/Product/Details/2864


Better choice. I bought my cables from Emotiva so not sure about Monoprice selection. Want cable for analog not digital.

Edit: the link is for a pair but you only need singles. Could not find single quality cables, but you get the idea. Doing this from my iPad and IOS 8.3 update is crazy some weird stuff so my iPad is not very usable right now.

[Spurrier Sucks]

The Emotiva cables are a good choice and not to expensive either. I use those too.