Found the Panasonic DMP-BD10's owner's manual online!!!

[bferr1]

I found it through Panasonic's global site, then searched for owner's manual downloads in US, Australia and United Kingdom. Found it under UK, but it appears to be the US manual, as there are references to US telephone numbers and warranty information.

Here's some interesting points I zeroed in on:

"Discs that cannot be played: BD-R, BD-RE v1/v2." (p. 5) Can someone add some insight into what this means?

"If the audio track of the disc was recorded with Dolby TrueHD, it will be output as Dolby Digital audio. If the audio track of the disc was recorded with DTS-HD, it will be output as DTS audio." (p. 5) So, unlike the Toshiba initially, there seems to be no two-channel limitation on DTHD. However, all channels are output as DD. I'd like to see that firmware upgraded, please.

Whoops, this player has a two-channel limitation on DD, DD Plus and DTS when internally decoded as PCM. Otherwise, full bitstreams are output. "Select how to output the signal. If 'Bitstream' is selected, the bitstream is output from the unit and the connected equipment decodes the signal. If 'PCM' is selected, this unit decodes the signal and output it as 2 channel from DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminal." (p. 22) Can a DD+ bitstream be output to and decoded by any receiver?

This player has selectable squeeze or stretch modes for 4:3 content on a 16:9 television. (p. 22) The Toshibas and later-build Samsungs pillarbox only, early Samsungs stretch only.

How can I get this file uploaded so you guys can see it???

[Petri Teittinen]

Won't a link do?

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/customer-...146758&fmt=pdf

Tick the box "I accept", then click Download.

[bferr1]

Thanks! Every time I tried to retrace my steps, I'd end up with "No manual found," so I thought it had become a dead link. I figured uploading the manual was the only other solution.

[Josh]

It sounds to me that they might be only limiting 2CH via Coax and Optical out. You will notice, it says "this unit decodes the signal and output it as 2 channel from the DIGTAL AUDIO OUT terminal". Doesn't mention anything about the analog out or HDMI out.

[Dave]

Here is another mirror to download from
http://rapidshare.de/files/34281102/rqt8745-1y.pdf.html

(click free)

[JTK]

^^ Nice!

bferr emailed me the PDF of this thing. I like what I see.

[bferr1]

Whoops, no HDMI cable included! I know most people like to use their own cable rather than the supplied one, but still, Samsung can include one for $999 and Toshiba can include one for $499 and $799. For $1299, Panasonic should not only include an HDMI cable, it should be one of those fat Monster ones.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by bferr1

Whoops, no HDMI cable included! I know most people like to use their own cable rather than the supplied one, but still, Samsung can include one for $999 and Toshiba can include one for $499 and $799. For $1299, Panasonic should not only include an HDMI cable, it should be one of those fat Monster ones.

Truth.

[bferr1]

Okay, exactly how is Panasonic justifying the $1299 asking price when apparently the player can't playback BD-Rs and BD-REs, doesn't come with an HDMI cable, lacks an ethernet port, comes with a butt-ugly remote and hidden front panel, and has, according to Petri Teittinen, "flimsy and plastic-y" build quality with innards that look like a $50 DVD player?

Forgive me if I sound a bit harsh, but I was really looking forward to this player. Now, I'm not so sure. The lack of support for BD-Rs and BD-REs alone is enough of a dealbreaker.

Panasonic, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by bferr1

Okay, exactly how is Panasonic justifying the $1299 asking price when apparently the player can't playback BD-Rs and BD-REs, doesn't come with an HDMI cable, lacks an ethernet port, comes with a butt-ugly remote and hidden front panel, and has, according to Petri Teittinen, "flimsy and plastic-y" build quality with innards that look like a $50 DVD player?

Forgive me if I sound a bit harsh, but I was really looking forward to this player. Now, I'm not so sure. The lack of support for BD-Rs and BD-REs alone is enough of a dealbreaker.

Panasonic, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

On the surface of it at least, I daresay: None of us can justify that price tag at all thus far, based on all of this.



I can't say I'm too surprised simply because the great DVD players from them that everyone talks about, like the RP82 are from how many years ago?

This is a question we have to ask Panasonic now: "What you done for me lately?"

That being said, I'm starting to feel disappointed when I read stuff like this. I also dread the inevitable FUD and "OMG TEH SKY IS FALLING!!!" stuff from HD-DVD trolls at certain forums over this sort of thing.

I want to see how the Sony and the Elite shape up, but I'm becoming more and more confident in my plan of simply buying the PS3 and riding out at least first gen altogether.

[bferr1]

Originally Posted by JTK

That being said, I'm starting to feel disappointed when I read stuff like this.

I hope you don't mean you're disappointed that I posted something like this, right? Like I said, I was really looking forward to this player, but that it really had to knock my socks off to justify the upgrade from the Sammy because I got that with a killer deal. Reality is starting to set in, though, and it's a disappointing reality at that. I am likely going to muddle through the G1 era with the Sammy, upgrade when G2 rolls around, and build up the software library in the meantime.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by bferr1

I hope you don't mean you're disappointed that I posted something like this, right?

Not at all. No, I'm disappointed in the information that we're all getting.

I'm glad you posted it.

Like I said, I was really looking forward to this player, but that it really had to knock my socks off to justify the upgrade from the Sammy because I got that with a killer deal. Reality is starting to set in, though, and it's a disappointing reality at that. I am likely going to muddle through the G1 era with the Sammy, upgrade when G2 rolls around, and build up the software library in the meantime.

Don't lose all heart yet. I want to hear how this thing performs. I still feel like I've heard things about firmware upgrades in the future that would keep the doors open for this player on some things.

We need more information, in general, about all of the forthcoming players.

[bferr1]

Originally Posted by JTK

We need more information, in general, about all of the forthcoming players.

Agreed, 100%. Why is it that the Australian Panasonic website has a wealth of information on the player and I found the owner's manual at the UK website, but there is next to nothing at all at the US site? And the player is set to hit stores in weeks! WTF?

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of playing the role of long-suffering BD fan. I just want to be able to buy hardware with some degree of confidence. Wow, what a concept!

[zombie]

Originally Posted by bferr1

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of playing the role of long-suffering BD fan. I just want to be able to buy hardware with some degree of confidence. Wow, what a concept!

Amen! I'm going nuts trying to figure out which is the best player for me.

[ProvenFlipper]

Originally Posted by nyg

Amen! I'm going nuts trying to figure out which is the best player for me.

That's exactly why I finally went out and picked up a Samsung player (got a great deal at Circuit City) and I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep this one. The newer Samsung players are pretty solid and with the new firmware included, or on the horizon, I'm pretty confident in my decision. I know most of you guys still won't purchase one, but that's okay because there's something for everyone.

The Samsung player is in my bedroom on a 32" Samsung LCD, so it doesn't need to be the greatest thing out. I was tired of waiting on what was to come, while I had 35 movies staring me in the face. Yeah, I might be missing DTS-MA and DolbyTruHD, but as long as I can get a high bitrate legacy DD stream and a high bitrate DTS stream out of the player I'm doing alright, as I feel they sound pretty good. When it came down to it, I realized the Sony player I wanted isn't going to do anything different than what the Samsung does for me today.

I'm not saying I'm anti-Sony player now, I have about 28 days left on the return policy, so if there is some groundbreaking new info on the Sony I may still opt for it, but most likely not.

[JTK]

I honestly wouldn't buy the Samsung if you've waited this long.

I'd either consider a PS3 if you're a gamer or see how the Sony, the Elite, and yes the Pansonic, all shake out in terms of real world performance.

I still feel like there's a LOT of information that needs to be set in concrete across the boards, and hasn't been yet.

And don't forget what firmware can do for you these days as well.

I just can't see the Samsung being worth a damn to anyone in less than two months from now. I think they should lower its MSRP to $499 and move 'em out while they still can.

And given Samsung's track record thus far in the entire DVD player market...it shouldn't surprise anyone.

[Blue]

Originally Posted by bferr1

Okay, exactly how is Panasonic justifying the $1299 asking price when apparently the player can't playback BD-Rs and BD-REs,

"flimsy and plastic-y" build quality with innards that look like a $50 DVD player?

Forgive me if I sound a bit harsh, but I was really looking forward to this player. Now, I'm not so sure. The lack of support for BD-Rs and BD-REs alone is enough of a dealbreaker.

Panasonic, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I'm unsure of version numbers etc and couldn't find them with a quick look but remember both Panasonic and Sony have (or should that be had) Blu Ray recorders on sale in Japan for a number of years. Those disc's are not compatible with the current generation of players and burners, remember those caddy's. So that maybe those are the disks that are not compatible - I will research a bit more tomorrow.

"innards that look like a $50 DVD player" that is exactly what I wanted to hear. Unlike Toshiba with their first generation that is basically a PC with a HD-DVD PC drive, Panasonic have developed (or obtained) dedicated IC's. This means that this player could be and some day will be $50, however while they can sell every player they can make for a kings or presidents ransome and recover some of that R&D budget quickly - well you would if you could. As the market starts to fill with the competition prices will start to fall. By the third generation expect the players to be more reliable, cheaper and higher quality. As an early adopter you really pay for that privillage and the company's are as happy to take your money as you (me included) to give it to them.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Blue

I'm unsure of version numbers etc and couldn't find them with a quick look but remember both Panasonic and Sony have (or should that be had) Blu Ray recorders on sale in Japan for a number of years. Those disc's are not compatible with the current generation of players and burners, remember those caddy's. So that maybe those are the disks that are not compatible - I will research a bit more tomorrow.

Good deal. Thanks!

"innards that look like a $50 DVD player" that is exactly what I wanted to hear. Unlike Toshiba with their first generation that is basically a PC with a HD-DVD PC drive,

And the "second gens" will be more of the same, one of which will cost A grand MSRP...

Panasonic have developed (or obtained) dedicated IC's. This means that this player could be and some day will be $50, however while they can sell every player they can make for a kings or presidents ransome and recover some of that R&D budget quickly - well you would if you could.

All true. Now I certainly hope this thing has more going for it than literally looking like and performing like a "$50 DVD player."

As the market starts to fill with the competition prices will start to fall. By the third generation expect the players to be more reliable, cheaper and higher quality. As an early adopter you really pay for that privillage and the company's are as happy to take your money as you (me included) to give it to them.

Exactly right.

These are all truths that somehow have been forgotten this past year or so on several forums, especially by HD-DVD supporters by and large.

That's when you'll start seeing the "Joe Six Pack and cheap Chinese players are going to carry HD-DVD across the finish line!" rubbish and you know you may as well just tune out and move on.

[bferr1]

Originally Posted by Blue

I'm unsure of version numbers etc and couldn't find them with a quick look but remember both Panasonic and Sony have (or should that be had) Blu Ray recorders on sale in Japan for a number of years. Those disc's are not compatible with the current generation of players and burners, remember those caddy's. So that maybe those are the disks that are not compatible - I will research a bit more tomorrow.

No, if you look in the owner's manual, besides the disclaimer about BD-R/BD-RE ver. 1/2, there is a chart of compatible discs, and BD-R/BD-REs still aren't mentioned. So it's confirmed in two places in the manual.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8507576

[JTK]

Originally Posted by bferr1

No, if you look in the owner's manual, besides the disclaimer about BD-R/BD-RE ver. 1/2, there is a chart of compatible discs, and BD-R/BD-REs still aren't mentioned.

So what does that mean, exactly? What are the ramifications?

Can any of that be firmware upgraded?