What's this?!?

[bferr1]

From AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8519819

Originally Posted by KENVAL

DVD World have advised also that Sony delayed to " late November ". No release date or availability given for Panasonic.
At UK HiFi Show at Heathrow on Friday, Panasonic demmed the DMP-BD10 to good effect but would ship WITHOUT DolbyHD or DTSHD but upgrade firmware upgrade " sometime" in 2007. Also said HDMI1.2 only. VERY limited number of units would ship & model to be deleated IMMEDIATLY on intial release !! New model March / April 2007 - HDMI 1.3 expected + All audio types.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8520659

Originally Posted by amillians

Panny has already let it leak that they're teeing up a replacement model in early 2007 (April, if I heard correctly). I can't vouch for Pioneer or Sony, but the market viability of a non-HDMI 1.3 device is obviously going to die once 1.3 takes over in early 2007. It's like trying to pimp DVI/HDCP once HDMI hit the shelves.

This does NOT fill me with confidence that I've made the right choice.

[Petri Teittinen]

Oh hell. This makes me re-think my decision to buy the Panny BD10 the moment it becomes available. 5-6 months goes by in a flash.

[zombie]

A 2G Pioneer player in early '07... oh man, I can't wait that long.

[JTK]

How the hell does second gen come that fast when first gen hasn't even hit the streets yet?

I'm definiely going PS3 all the way and skipping first gen. This pretty much ices any slightly lingering doubts in my mind on that matter.

But here's what doesn't make sense: Basically all the players keeping pushed back practically to November anyways...how can they do something so ridiculous like this? They're going to release a player in November and then another one not even 6 months later? Not sure I'd call that second gen as much as I'd call it "What the first product should have been anyways."

We'll see...

[Dave]

As always the AVSForum members writing is doubtfull.


Sony @ amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BDP-S1-Bl...&s=electronics

[JimPullan]

Originally Posted by JTK

I'm definiely going PS3 all the way and skipping first gen. This pretty much ices any slightly lingering doubts in my mind on that matter.

You know JTK, that the PS3 has most every feature, including HDMI 1.3, in it, as will be in the BDP-S1. Now with the additional delays on the BDP-S1, that I'm seriously considering just using the PS3 as my dedicated Blu-Ray Player, instead of waiting on the BDP-S1 or the Pioneer Elite. This is frustrating, these delays. I have customers lined up from here to infinity for these players and now another delay. Here by the Holiday's . . . Bah Humbug

Jim

[vick vega]

So the BDP-S1 will have hdmi 1.3?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by JimPullan

You know JTK, that the PS3 has most every feature, including HDMI 1.3, in it, as will be in the BDP-S1. Now with the additional delays on the BDP-S1, that I'm seriously considering just using the PS3 as my dedicated Blu-Ray Player, instead of waiting on the BDP-S1 or the Pioneer Elite. This is frustrating, these delays. I have customers lined up from here to infinity for these players and now another delay. Here by the Holiday's . . . Bah Humbug

Jim

Yeah, it certainly seems to be the best way to ride out first gen, if nothing else.

If you're not a gamer...I'm not really sure the PS3 would be that appealing, but hey, you never know. *shrugs*

But again: As long as these things make it in time for all the important final 4-5 weeks of retail leading from a week or so before Thanksgiving on through Christmas time, that's all that really matters.

[bferr1]

Originally Posted by Dave

As always the AVSForum members writing is doubtfull.


Sony @ amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BDP-S1-Bl...&s=electronics

What exactly am I supposed to be looking at at the Amazon site? How does this refute the AVS Forum member's writing?

[JimPullan]

Originally Posted by vick vega

So the BDP-S1 will have hdmi 1.3?

No it won't !!! However, the second generation player will, coming in the first or second quarter, 2007 . . . . . Maybe !


Jim

[Blue]

Originally Posted by JTK

How the hell does second gen come that fast when first gen hasn't even hit the streets yet?

I'm definiely going PS3 all the way and skipping first gen. This pretty much ices any slightly lingering doubts in my mind on that matter.

But here's what doesn't make sense: Basically all the players keeping pushed back practically to November anyways...how can they do something so ridiculous like this? They're going to release a player in November and then another one not even 6 months later? Not sure I'd call that second gen as much as I'd call it "What the first product should have been anyways."

We'll see...

I agree letting slip about second gen is a mistake - however it's expected. The first gen is much like Beta software. In this case Toshiba was very smart and saw a way to get to market quickly. I think all will agree that the first release of the Samsung was not ready for release - but they had to (well someone had to and they were apparently the closest, or most expendable - I will put money no one here would have bought the Samsung, if they had a choice of another brand, whilst the people that will buy the Samsung in a couple of years will not be aware what occured with the first batch). Now everyone else has to have something.

As for release of the 2nd Generation, if it's anything like software development, at a certain point decisions are made to determine what has to be done to get something out. Code development is then split. The good version that will become release 2 is starved of resources while the effort is put in to get this buggy feature restricted thing to market by covering up the big flaws as best as possible. Once the product is out and now supports problem everyone goes back to where they left off so that release 2 will be what release 1 should have been.

Leaving out the Sales and Marketing departments that have a massive input into products like this for very good reason. The mechanical drive has to be designed. The electronics for the drive are designed by another group, then the 2 have to put together and modified to work together. That's the drive taken care of, now the rest of the player and it has to work with the drive and the standards. The case and interface (outputs and buttons on the front) have to be designed and everthing fitting in, cooling vents or fans etc. We have now got to the prototype stage. If it's thumbs up off to make the tools to mass produce the drive, case, circuit boards and IC's. The packaging has to designed, manual written (and translated, printed etc), processes for testing and production, logistics for storage, distribution and service (around the world). Throw sales and marketing, testing reaction to different case designs etc and many thousands of man hours have vanished. There are plenty other inputs to the process as well.

As soon as a design team has finished they will go back to start on the next model refining and enhancing. After a while teams will reduce in numbers and products will stabalise and little changes except the case. This is where DVD is in the evolution cycle at the moment. It should take fewer generatoins to get to a stable, reliable player, as a Blu Ray player as much of the technology can be modified from the DVD player.

It seems that Panasonic have decided they are going to put up a big fight in 2 areas of HD, Blu Ray and projectors, they seem to be lagging in the consumer HD Camcorder space at the moment (Canon and Sony are about to slug it out there).

The way digital still cameras are being upgraded, if Blu Ray follows the same game, 3rd Generation players will be arriving by Christmas next year. The problem is except for any students here, no one else will be able to wait until next Christmas (most of us won't be able to hold out until this Christmas). I suspect there maybe a PS3 rev2 out sometime next year as well, that will fix a few bugs etc.

[theknub]

i think we have to take all this 2G information with a grain of salt. everything we are hearing is "i heard from a buddy...", "my distributor speculates...", "my friends friend has a buddy who is pretty high up..." type of information. with this being the case, we should hold off until we have official announcements.

personally, i am planning on going the ps3 route anyway until set top boxes are a bit more affordable on my beer budget.

[JTK]

Then it's PS3 all the way for me until the format war is over.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by bferr1

What exactly am I supposed to be looking at at the Amazon site? How does this refute the AVS Forum member's writing?

The SONY player wich have been mentioned here, in this thread. It is not for you, its for everyone.

[Chris Beveridge]

The timing is almost the same as what Toshiba is doing. It was already "speculated" at the launch of the A1 that there would be 2G or maybe 1.5G by the holidays. Even at the demo I went to here at Tweeter, the rep said it was highly likely. So six months from first to second. If Panny gets decks out by Oct, then an April 2g is the same timeframe.

The difference of course is the prices. HOWEVER, the feature set for the Toshiba shifted important items to the more expensive deck. I can almost guarantee that a 2G Panasonic deck will have MORE features and cost less. But the 1G panasonic will likely have most of those features in an upgrade via firmware as well.

[vick vega]

Will 1.3 make a difference if I have a 1080i tv, and the player can decode the new audio formats and pass them over 6 ch. analouge to my reciever?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by vick vega

Will 1.3 make a difference if I have a 1080i tv, and the player can decode the new audio formats and pass them over 6 ch. analouge to my reciever?

If you don't have a 1080p display, right off the bat, I can't imagine much appreciable PQ benefit.

And remember: There's a lot of hype and specs on HDMI 1.3, but has anyone really seen that kind of thing come to pass?

Have there been demoes put up yet with "before/after" HDMI 1.3 where anyone has seen anything appreciably different?




IF that criteria you just spelled out is met by the player, I can't see how HDMI 1.3 benefits you at all.

I think HDMI 1.3 is cool, but frankly, overrated and overrstated in terms of "importance."

People are planning on these expensive upgrades for $3000 HDMI 1.3 receivers and such, and for what?

IF the player you get decodes over multichannel analogs...isn't that good enough?

It certainly would be for me. YMMV.




How the hell is it that a $500-$600 videogame console like the PS3 is going to have features that trump >$1000+ standalone players? (HDMI 1.3, for example.)

That doesn't make sense.

[thunderhawk]

Originally Posted by JTK

How the hell is it that a $500-$600 videogame console like the PS3 is going to have features that trump >$1000+ standalone players? (HDMI 1.3, for example.)

That doesn't make sense.

Ask Sony's Entertainment department.
I remember PS2's playback to be quite good, and didn't lack features the first gen DVD players didn't have...

[vick vega]

Well that's pretty gay that the ps3 isn't a dedicated player,is cheaper, and is going to have more features. What the hell is Sony thinking?

[JTK]

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

Ask Sony's Entertainment department.
I remember PS2's playback to be quite good, and didn't lack features the first gen DVD players didn't have...

I remember the PS2 being one of the worst DVD players anyone could have owned and I also remember it laser burning several of my early DVD's.