Joe Kane prefers SDR over HDR

[HeavyHitter]

Advocates 10 bit and P3 along with it.

http://www.avsforum.com/joe-kane-on-hdr/

[Geoff D]

Not a great fan of that dude TBH.

[ray0414]

And if you read the comments, alot of knowledgeable people disagree with his stats and opinions. What a mess lol

[bruceames]

Joe Kane seems to get more conservative as time goes on. I guess that's a byproduct of getting older but this is ridiculous. SDR better than HDR?

[Esox50]

Joe Kane...somewhat/kind-of relevant back in the mid-90s when we had Laserdisc and Widescreen Review. Now...not so much.

[uther]

Guess he does not watch the display with all the lights on...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Joe Kane prefers SDR over HDR...

poor thing

of course nothing surprises me now with Joe after this from 2013.

[scorpiontail60]

He's not the only one. I'm seeing too many examples where Hollywood seems to think that HDR is just a "let's make everything super bright and throw the TV into a store display 'torch mode'

So then the end result is that the HDR version ends up being this distracting version with oversaturated colors and lost detail. If I wanted my video to look like that then I wouldn't have taken the time to calibrate my display's colors and brightness, contrast, etc. levels and keep it in a standard/movie mode instead of in the overly bright and oversaturated mode it ships with by default and is used to 'wow' people looking at store displays.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by scorpiontail60

He's not the only one. I'm seeing too many examples where Hollywood seems to think that HDR is just a "let's make everything super bright and throw the TV into a store display 'torch mode'

So then the end result is that the HDR version ends up being this distracting version with oversaturated colors and lost detail. If I wanted my video to look like that then I wouldn't have taken the time to calibrate my display's colors and brightness, contrast, etc. levels and keep it in a standard/movie mode instead of in the overly bright and oversaturated mode it ships with by default and is used to 'wow' people looking at store displays.

I don't know what settings you're using, but my UHD BDs look nothing like you're describing. The average brightness levels on my BDs and UHDs are approximately the same, just the the UHD has more highlights and lowlights in certain areas of certain scenes. It's not a blanket saturation effect that you describe. Not at all.

[infiniteCR]

Dolby vision cinema is better.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by scorpiontail60

He's not the only one. I'm seeing too many examples where Hollywood seems to think that HDR is just a "let's make everything super bright and throw the TV into a store display 'torch mode'

So then the end result is that the HDR version ends up being this distracting version with oversaturated colors and lost detail. If I wanted my video to look like that then I wouldn't have taken the time to calibrate my display's colors and brightness, contrast, etc. levels and keep it in a standard/movie mode instead of in the overly bright and oversaturated mode it ships with by default and is used to 'wow' people looking at store displays.

Sorry dudette, I've gotta disagree. On my set the colour is richer and more deeply saturated but not overly saturated, and instead of lost detail I'm seeing quite the opposite: more range at both the upper AND lower end of the video scale. There's more of dat old-fashioned spatial resolution too.

IIRC aren't you rocking the Samsung player? Is it going into an HDR set or an SDR display?

[dvdmike]

It can be the way forward depending on how and who uses it.
Two cinematographers have spoken out now about HOW its used and have had to correct what wa s done to this films.
Like DNR it is a tool and needs to be used correctly

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Two cinematographers have spoken out now about HOW its used and have had to correct what wa s done to this films.

Any chance you can point me at either of those?

[scorpiontail60]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Sorry dudette, I've gotta disagree. On my set the colour is richer and more deeply saturated but not overly saturated, and instead of lost detail I'm seeing quite the opposite: more range at both the upper AND lower end of the video scale. There's more of dat old-fashioned spatial resolution too.

IIRC aren't you rocking the Samsung player? Is it going into an HDR set or an SDR display?

I have a JS9500; I think the Samsung player has some DNR built into it or something though because I'm getting banding on everything and even stuff like The Revenant just looks blurrier compared to playing back 4K content on this screen from my PC or other players. Maybe that's why I'm not impressed.

It's the Amazon streaming content using the display's built-in app that suffers from oversaturated color.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by scorpiontail60

I have a JS9500; I think the Samsung player has some DNR built into it or something though because I'm getting banding on everything and even stuff like The Revenant just looks blurrier compared to playing back 4K content on this screen from my PC or other players. Maybe that's why I'm not impressed.

It's the Amazon streaming content using the display's built-in app that suffers from oversaturated color.

It's such a shame you're getting the banding and you're not the first owner of a Samsung TV to mention it. I can now understand your frustration with the format, it's not nice when this super-duper new UHD stuff ends up looking like shite. May I say that it really *is* better than what you're currently getting from it, but what I can't say is how to fix it for you. And in the current absence of any other disc-spinning hardware available in the US you can't even check another make of player.

Seems like they can put in all the 10-bit panels they like, but if the video processing itself isn't up to snuff then that fancy panel counts for nought. I'm occasionally seeing a trace of banding on my Sony set (which probably has an 8-bit + Hi-FRC panel, it's 10-bit to all intents and purposes) but it's absolutely nothing like some of the examples I've seen on the Samsungs. For such a comparatively out of date TV (two years might as well be a lifetime in tech terms) it handles the 12-bit 4:2:2 SDR 2020 signal just fine for 4K24, and in terms of gamut coverage it's virtually equal to that of a 2016 Sony which I'm very pleased about.

[bruceames]

I hear the JS9500 is a poor display for HDR because of the banding (and it has blooming as well). But Ray seems to be happy with his.

[applemac]

well good for him...

[Richard Paul]

What Joe Kane said about HLG (at 19:15 in the video) is wrong. One of the features that the BBC promotes about HLG is that it is a relative system and using a log curve doesn't change that. Joe Kane is also wrong about PQ since it doesn't use a log curve but is based on human perception. Also while Joe Kane prefers SDR near the end of the interview (at 48:32 in the video) he admits that the dynamic metadata HDR system that was shown by Samsung looked good (one of the metadata systems in SMPTE 2094).

[vincentric]

When I fired up the martian uhd recently to check out a few favorite scenes, it looked like ass all of a sudden, banding everywhere where there was none before.

The cause of it was the 24p setting in the k8500.

I forgot I had 24p disabled (for 3d movies), setting it back to auto got rid of the banding. Just throwing that out there in case anyone finds it helpful.

[dvdmike]

The common link with the banding is the Samsung player so far