Looking for 4K player understanding/advice regarding reliabilty in playing discs

[Dynamo of Eternia]

So, let me preface this with some back story of very limited "4K journey" thus far, which I'm putting in spoiler tags due to the length:

[Show spoiler]Back in 2014, I upgraded my TV to a 64 inch Samsung F8500 Plasma, which was the last high end Plasma produced. I spent a few grand on it (which for me is a pretty big investment - it is the most that I have ever spent on a TV in my life). And I knew that I would be keeping it as my main TV for a long time before upgrading again.

In 2016, the 4K disc format launched. While I knew it would be a long time before I would have a 4K TV, since most 4K movie releases also came with the regular Blu-Ray, I started buying those combo packs from the get-go. I would still buy regular Blu-Rays (or even the occasional DVD) if that was the only option available for a given release, but if there was a 4K + Blu-Ray combo pack of a movie that I was planning to buy anyway, I've opted for that going forward.

In early 2018, when rewatching my MCU Blu-Rays in the lead up to Avengers Infinity War coming out, the Blu-Ray player I was watching them on died. While I had plenty of other devices (stand alone players, game consoles) that could play them, I decided to still replace it.

Since I already had a decent amount of 4K discs, I figured I may as well get a 4K player. I opted for the Panasonic ub900 (that is Nine Hundred... the 9000 was not out at this point). It had really good reviews and I opted for it since it had more options to adjust the HDR, which would be beneficial to use on a non-HDR tv.

The results with adjusting was so-so. The quality was good, but obviously not ideal without a 4K tv. Though i was rather amazed how well it upscaled DVDs and Blu-Rays.

I still have this player and it still works (more on this shortly).

Right now my main TV is still that Samsung Plasma. I'm sure most reading this are thinking, "it's been over 10 years, how have you not upgraded by now?!" To be honest, I likely otherwise would have by now. But without going into a lot of personal detail that I don't really want to share on a public forum, I've had some complications in my life the past few years that (while I can technically afford it), have resulted in me trying to avoid making any huge recreational purchases, and frankly in terms of what I've just been focused on in general (more important life stuff), upgrading HT equipment hasn't exactly been a top priority anyway. I've still been buying movies, etc., but those are relatively small purchases in the grand scheme of things.

Those complications aren't completely over yet, but let's just say there is some "light at the end of the tunnel" and there's a good chance they will behind me within the next year or two.

So regarding that Panasonic player that I currently have... I've used it rather sparingly since I don't watch 4K discs often for the aforementioned reasons. And while the up-scaling is great, I've used it less for regular Blu-Rays and DVDs after reading so many things the last few years about issues with players these days, not wanting to wear this one out.

I also have since gotten a PS5, which I wasn't in a big hurry to get (I knew I wanted one eventually for gaming), but when they announced the slim models that require an online pairing just for the disc drive to work, I made it a priority to get the older model with the disc drive built in before they were no longer available new.

The TL;DR version of the spoiler tags above:
*Been collecting 4K+Blu-ray combo packs where applicable since the 4K disc format's launch
*still using my Samsung F8500 Plasma that I have yet to upgrade (if you're wondering "WHY???" - I explain it more in the spoiler tags above).
*Got a Panasonic ub900 (NOT 9000) in 2018 when a regular blu-ray player died, and it still works well, though I use it sparingly since I don't have a 4K TV yet.
*Also have a PS5 that I mainly use for gaming - but can work for 4K discs, though it lacks some of the ideal features as is well known.


So, onto the point of me starting this thread...

As stated, I've been collecting 4K combo packs since the format launched. I have glanced at threads in this section of the forum here and there, and I've followed news like when various companies have gotten out of making players.

My rough understanding of the current state of things (which someone can correct me if I am off base about anything) is this...

*The current stand alone players made by both Sony and Panasonic (the two main companies still making them) tend to be finicky when it comes to the playback of 4K discs.

*Some people swear by one company over the other, saying that they had problems with one and not the other, but this seems to go in both directions and there isn't a consensus on one or the other being better.

*It seems like this issue largely began during covid when they apparently changed some manufacturing standards, and players produced before this time were/are more reliable.

*Game systems like the PS5 are the most reliable for error-free playback, but are very lacking in needed/desired features.


I'm looking for thoughts about how accurate all of that is, and if there are any standalone players being made these days that actually are solid and reliable.

If not, and if players manufactured pre-covid were more reliable, as much of a pain as it would be to make sure I'm getting something that is in good shape, I may look into buying some older used players from that era.

Or... if 4K playback has always been finicky on almost all models of players (at least noticeably more so than that of regular Blu-Ray), then I may just not bother with getting too many older or newer players. I realize that with it having more data "crammed" into the same physical space as a regular Blu-Ray or DVD, it means that scratches, dust, etc. can have a greater effect on playback, which is somewhat understandable up to a point. But if it is SO inconsistent that it's like a perpetual game of roulette, I don't know how much more I will invest into the format.


This has been a catch-22 for me as some studios have been releasing movies on 4K discs without an included Blu-Ray. It's hard to justify buying it twice if I have to do so just to get both discs.

And now some things like TV shows are getting 4K releases, which is tempting, but with those being multi-disc sets, if even just one disc has an issue, it will make me not want to bother. For example, I am interested in the 4K release of Seinfeld since it is in the original aspect ratio. But I don't want to spend that kind of money on it if it will have playback issues. Honestly if the regular Blu-Ray set were also in the OAR (which sadly it is not), I likely would have just gotten that and been satisfied with it.


To be clear, I do care about both picture and audio quality, and I would love to get to a point in the not-too-distant future where I can enjoy the 4K format in all of it's glory.

But right now, even putting aside what equipment I do and do not currently have, given all of the reported issues about 4K disc playback and 4K player reliability, I still see Blu-Ray as my main baseline format just due to it seemingly being more reliable overall. I still believe in physical media since it can't be taken away like titles being removed from various digital services. And as much as I do care about PQ and AQ, the access is the more important aspect for me. So if a Blu-Ray disc is far more reliable than the same movie on a 4K disc generally speaking, the Blu-ray wins out over the 4K disc or even a 4K digital release (which may play reliably, but can be removed).


So any advice and thoughts on this topic - specifically on the best players to get (whether they are currently on the market or require obtaining older used models) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!

[deatheats]

In my opinion the Panasonic 820 is the best player on the market in regards to price/performance. It is also your best bet for HDR > SDR conversion for your plasma of the players on the market, while you figure out a 4k display you want. Dedicated SDR conversion devices are generally expensive. It also allows you to play many region B discs through a couple of top menu remote clicks.

What it does not do well is file playback, streaming and isn’t the best for DVD output. Reliability of 4k playback has been great in my experience…YMMV.

The firmware has also been reverse engineered to fix some CPU issues & add full multiregion support, but that is another story.

[Mr. Smedley]

I was recently gifted the new Sony UBP-X700U. It’s been absolutely flawless so far, looks to be decently built, and is reasonably priced. I’ve probably run about 20-25 UHD 4k BDs through it since getting it, with zero playback issues. I like that they’ve omitted all the streaming features on this iteration, and added DV. It’s certainly one to consider. Mine was purchased from Crutchfield.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-tsisxT...iABEgJ81_D_BwE

[stonesfan129]

One thing I've noticed is I've had fewer issues if I give the disc a good wipedown with a microfiber cloth before I play it.

Not sure about the PS5, but Xbox One S when playing 4KBDs gets LOUD.

[hallowdrew]

Interesting. I didn't know that it was out already. The true test is if it runs all the BD-100 discs that the old X700 choked on. I'm looking forward to reading the reports from all the buyers with experiences of both the old and new versions of the player. Thanks for chiming in.

Originally Posted by Mr. Smedley

I was recently gifted the new Sony UBP-X700U. It’s been absolutely flawless so far, looks to be decently built, and is reasonably priced. I’ve probably run about 20-25 UHD 4k BDs through it since getting it, with zero playback issues. I like that they’ve omitted all the streaming features on this iteration, and added DV. It’s certainly one to consider. Mine was purchased from Crutchfield.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-tsisxT...iABEgJ81_D_BwE

[Juan de Internet]

My understanding is that 4k UHD Blu-rays are inherently more prone to playback errors because the data is more closely spaced and/or more overlapped on them. A given dust particle/scratch/optical interference is more likely to distort a critical amount of information on a BD-100 than a BD-66 or BD-50. In my experience it’s just a matter of time before dust or a scratch hits the wrong spot on the disc or read head and won’t come off. Then you either need to do surgery or just toss it and get a new one like most people do.

There is a way players can mitigate this, though, and that’s to have a larger buffer. If they hit an error they will try to reread the spot at least a few times. If one of those reads is a success before the buffer empties the sound of the read head moving back and forth might be the only evidence something went wrong. If the buffer empties before a successful read, though, you’re going to see some sort of problem on screen. And if the player software is buggy, like on my LG, it can hang the whole system.

In my estimation, the reason why Playstations (never owned an Xbox) have historically been the most robust optical disc players comes primarily down to them having orders of magnitude more memory than a standalone player. There are probably other reasons, but memory and maybe CPU/GPU power are the primary ones.