3D Blu-ray Music Rights

[T. Warren Scollan]

This seems to be coming an issue in our communities' efforts to bring older 3d films to Blu-ray. 3dFA had to drop "Sea Dream" as an extra with their restoration of "September Storm" and substitute "Harmony Lane". It seems that the same issue is a roadblock for a 3d Blu-ray of "The Glass Web". And I've heard it's also a hangup for 'flat' issues like "Murphy Brown". Somebody jump in here and tell us more, please!

[revgen]

My understanding is that Sea Dream was dropped because they couldn't find anything better than a dupe negative. Murray Lerner apparently had no problem ditching the original music, but wouldn't settle for an inferior print.

The Glass Web definitely has a music right's issue holding up any home video release. Hopefully, Universal can find a way to clear the rights.

[T. Warren Scollan]

Originally Posted by revgen

My understanding is that Sea Dream was dropped because they couldn't find anything better than a dupe negative. Murray Lerner apparently had no problem ditching the original music, but wouldn't settle for an inferior print.

The Glass Web definitely has a music right's issue holding up any home video release. Hopefully, Universal can find a way to clear the rights.

OK, Revgen, if you're right, I'll stand corrected. But I thought I read in the ongoing updates while the kickstarter was going on, that those right issues were going to force them to create a new sound track for Sea Dream which would make it too costly. And I get the implication that it's not so much clearing the musical rights on these films, but the prohibitive costs of paying for them. Maybe Bob F. could chime in on this?

Once again, as an audio engineer, I can tell you, you usually can't just ditch the music. That can only be done if you have all the audio components separately, ie., music, dialog, sound effects, foley work, etc. With only a mono release track, it's all or nothing. It's the same kind of problems that were discussed in trying to make a Blu-ray release of the 3d version of "The Command"

[Robert Furmanek]

The producer told us after we agreed to do the restoration that he did not have rights to the music and he did not have separate DME tracks. Strike one.

Then he did not deliver the camera negative. Instead we got a third generation dupe negative after the film was re-cut. Strike two.

Then it turned out he didn't have rights to the film after all and had we released it, we would have been subject to copyright violation. Strike three.

These matters are not always as easy/cut and dry as they appear.

[Interdimensional]

A shame about that. I'm sure Sea Dream would've looked stunning on bluray. Probably reference quality 3-D for that era. But given the circumstances described, it would definitely have been unwise to proceed.

It's my wish for the new year that the various rights holders and their representatives for these films and their soundtracks can come to a better understanding of the realities of the situation and be cooperative with what needs to happen. That while the commercial value involved may not be significant, there is interest in these properties and they deserve to be restored and made available. It may be possible and necessary to crowd-source the funding required to allow this. As things currently stand, the amount of money being generated with these films sitting in cans is zero, while those who created the films and their soundtracks fall into obscurity, their work often inaccessible and forgotten. With a digital 3-D master created, these films will reach an audience right now and going forward many years into the future.

[T. Warren Scollan]

Once again, I'm glad to have brought this subject up and helped generate some clarifying discussion.

Thanks, Bob.

[the13thman]

Music rights have been an issue since VHS - with older films music rights were sometimes secured only for theatrical exhibition.

So when home video became a thing, unfortunately greedy rights holders and cheap distributors both operated to prevent the release of films in their original form, or at all. You used to see "home video version" on the back of VHS boxes to indicate when music had been altered.

This happened a lot on DVD too. A good example is The Junkman , which was the follow up to the original Gone In 60 Seconds - Hoyt Axton's songs are all gone from the soundtrack and so is his credit. Lots of films have smaller cuts - Billion Dollar Brain has a Beatles-referencing scene removed, for example.

Return Of The Living Dead is another very good example with multiple releases over the years. On VHS it had a killer soundtrack but on DVD the audio was noticeably different, not just music but the voices of the zombies too - it plainly just wasn't as good.

The UK blu ray thankfully restores the original audio track but the US blu ray is still missing one song because the a deal couldn't be done with the current rights holders. Either the US rights holders wanted too much or the US distributor was too cheap.

What I don't get is why Hong Kong films that blatantly rip off music from Hollywood films don't seem to have the same problems getting released. Perhaps because it's scores being ripped off rather than songs? I don't know - what I do know is that the law is a mess, particularly in America where the greed is at its greatest and the lawyers are at their worst.

Sadly, nobody cares about art.

[3Dfan]

Originally Posted by the13thman

Music rights have been an issue since VHS - with older films music rights were sometimes secured only for theatrical exhibition.

So when home video became a thing, unfortunately greedy rights holders and cheap distributors both operated to prevent the release of films in their original form, or at all. You used to see "home video version" on the back of VHS boxes to indicate when music had been altered.

This happened a lot on DVD too. A good example is The Junkman , which was the follow up to the original Gone In 60 Seconds - Hoyt Axton's songs are all gone from the soundtrack and so is his credit. Lots of films have smaller cuts - Billion Dollar Brain has a Beatles-referencing scene removed, for example.

Return Of The Living Dead is another very good example with multiple releases over the years. On VHS it had a killer soundtrack but on DVD the audio was noticeably different, not just music but the voices of the zombies too - it plainly just wasn't as good.

The UK blu ray thankfully restores the original audio track but the US blu ray is still missing one song because the a deal couldn't be done with the current rights holders. Either the US rights holders wanted too much or the US distributor was too cheap.

What I don't get is why Hong Kong films that blatantly rip off music from Hollywood films don't seem to have the same problems getting released. Perhaps because it's scores being ripped off rather than songs? I don't know - what I do know is that the law is a mess, particularly in America where the greed is at its greatest and the lawyers are at their worst.

Sadly, nobody cares about art.

one of the things I noticed when watching one Hong Kong film I have (supposed to be a realistic film iirc)is when she (the main character) did a jump or something in one scene, there was the sound effect from The Six Million Dollar Man.