Hand Drawn Animation in 3D

[Jimmy Smith]

In response to recent reports that The Lion King and Beauty and the Beast getting 3D Blu-Ray releases in 2011 I have to wonder how 3D will work for hand drawn animated movies. Computer animation exists in a 3D computer space which makes it easy for a stereoscopic 3D version created by re-rendering the original digital files at a slightly different angle. Even life action conversions even if a 3D version is digitally created from 2D video files the conversion artist is basing the added depth on the depth the real world inheritly has. The same can't be said for hand drawn animtion. Hand Drawn animation, an artform over 100 years old now, are simply flat drawings on flat paper and have no existing depth other then the depth the viewer imagines. Which makes it seem like an artform not suited for stereoscopic 3D. Ive never seen a hand drawn movie in 3D before. I will await the conversions of Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King with interest at the same time I see no reason to hold off on the 2D version of Beauty and the Beast and have low expectations for converting this artform to 3D.

[drummerboy_2002]

It may be a simple layered 3D, i.e. flat backgrounds and forgrounds, but a sense of depth between them. It would be much the same as the cheap 3D conversions done on 2D films these days. In any case, if the source wasn't 3D, I don't see the point in doing a conversion. But, I guess that's the big fad these days; make everything 3D, regardless of if it benefits the meterial or not.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by drummerboy_2002

It may be a simple layered 3D, i.e. flat backgrounds and forgrounds, but a sense of depth between them. It would be much the same as the cheap 3D conversions done on 2D films these days. In any case, if the source wasn't 3D, I don't see the point in doing a conversion. But, I guess that's the big fad these days; make everything 3D, regardless of if it benefits the meterial or not.

I hope not. It could work if they hand animated a separate version of these movies at a slightly different angle. This could give hand drawn characters a greater sense of depth. If this is a simple layering job the pulls objects away from there backgrounds but gives the characters themselves no added sense of depth (as I fear) then this will be one to avoid.

[fantasiafilmlover]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

In response to recent reports that The Lion King and Beauty and the Beast getting 3D Blu-Ray releases in 2011 I have to wonder how 3D will work for hand drawn animated movies. Computer animation exists in a 3D computer space which makes it easy for a stereoscopic 3D version created by re-rendering the original digital files at a slightly different angle. Even life action conversions even if a 3D version is digitally created from 2D video files the conversion artist is basing the added depth on the depth the real world inheritly has. The same can't be said for hand drawn animtion. Hand Drawn animation, an artform over 100 years old now, are simply flat drawings on flat paper and have no existing depth other then the depth the viewer imagines. Which makes it seem like an artform not suited for stereoscopic 3D. Ive never seen a hand drawn movie in 3D before. I will await the conversions of Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King with interest at the same time I see no reason to hold off on the 2D version of Beauty and the Beast and have low expectations for converting this artform to 3D.

...Called Starchaser: The Legend of Orin made in the 80s and I saw it in a UK cinema on its first run. At the time I was quite impressed with it.

Then it disappeared completely from view, not even a 2D version of it anywhere.

So I was well pleased that, just after I got a field sequential 3D system to use with my widescreen CRT television, I found the film again. It was a region-free DVD and was being sold via eBayUK. So I purchased it. Of course, coming from the USA I had to wait a week or so before I was able to see it.

The first thing I noticed when I started the film was how much depth there was. The caverns at the beginning looked as if they went on for miles! But the characters were completely flat--they looked as if they had been run over by a steamroller! Still, despite that, I really enjoyed seeing the film.

It's basically an affectionate rip-off of the slightly earlier(1977) Star Wars(as it was known then, before it got the IV below it and the title A New Hope added on). If ever you see it, just think of Orin as Luke Skywalker.

And I'm still pleased I've got it.

So, in wrapping this up, let me say this; don't worry about any 3D versions of The Lion King or Beauty and the Beast. With all the money that Disney has at their disposal(and the amount of time before they are released) I'm sure they'll do a first-rate conversion. I for one am looking forward to the ballroom scene in BatB as well as the opening sequence in TLK.

StLoO obviously won't benefit from a re-vamp so, even if it makes onto Blu Ray, it'll probably just be a 2D version and I'll have to use the pseudo-3D on my new TV in order to get any benefit from the original.

I hope this has helped.

John.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by fantasiafilmlover

...Called Starchaser: The Legend of Orin made in the 80s and I saw it in a UK cinema on its first run. At the time I was quite impressed with it.

Then it disappeared completely from view, not even a 2D version of it anywhere.

So I was well pleased that, just after I got a field sequential 3D system to use with my widescreen CRT television, I found the film again. It was a region-free DVD and was being sold via eBayUK. So I purchased it. Of course, coming from the USA I had to wait a week or so before I was able to see it.

The first thing I noticed when I started the film was how much depth there was. The caverns at the beginning looked as if they went on for miles! But the characters were completely flat--they looked as if they had been run over by a steamroller! Still, despite that, I really enjoyed seeing the film.

It's basically an affectionate rip-off of the slightly earlier(1977) Star Wars(as it was known then, before it got the IV below it and the title A New Hope added on). If ever you see it, just think of Orin as Luke Skywalker.

And I'm still pleased I've got it.

So, in wrapping this up, let me say this; don't worry about any 3D versions of The Lion King or Beauty and the Beast. With all the money that Disney has at their disposal(and the amount of time before they are released) I'm sure they'll do a first-rate conversion. I for one am looking forward to the ballroom scene in BatB as well as the opening sequence in TLK.

StLoO obviously won't benefit from a re-vamp so, even if it makes onto Blu Ray, it'll probably just be a 2D version and I'll have to use the pseudo-3D on my new TV in order to get any benefit from the original.

I hope this has helped.

John.

Ive heard some positive response to Beauty and the Beast's conversion. I will most definutely wanna check it out in 3D as soon as I can.

Ive never even heard of the idea that hand drawn animation have been done in 3D. Hand drawn animted movies in the theatres have become quite a rarity in recent years of course. Disney released Princess and the Frog in 2D only because I assumed that hand drawn animation and stereoscopic 3D are incompatible.

Im not at all worried about the 3D. The way I see it even if the 3D for the Lion King is awful all 3D discs will have a 2D option. Meaning no matter what the Blu-Ray will be amazing for what I consider the finest non-Pixar animated movie of all time.

[Bravia3D]

Panasonic has shown Chip & Dale as a 3D demo here in Japan. The 3D looks great on it, so I have a feeling hand drawn won't be a problem.

[digitalkiller]

While very different I still enjoy the ones I've seen. I like them better than converted live films.

3D Hardcore

[Paul H]

Resurrected this old thread because of title relevance.


The 1954 Disney 3D cartoon short: Working For Peanuts, runtime: 6 minutes 50 seconds, is located on a 2010 promotional Disney Digital 3-D Showcase Disc.

The 3D cartoon looks digitally remastered on Blu-ray 3D. Color, clarity, and 3D stability are pristine for vibrant images. No noticeable dust or scratches.

The 1954 3D Disney cartoon style renders familiar 2D animation forms in multiple layer-planes for visual depth and pop-out. There is no volume added to any of the flat hand drawn animation forms.

[Zivouhr]

Thanks.

Beauty and the Beast 3D has some great volume to the characters, and the layering is correct, so the floor, being a background layer, doesn't drop out from under the characters as it does in Goliath War of the Worlds 3D cartoon.

I personally don't mind flat layers in cel shaded cartoons (though volume does look more convincing) as long as they're in the right order so the floor goes from foreground to background gradually rather than being one big flat layer, which ends up looking like the characters are walking on air if we can see their shoes.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

I personally don't mind flat layers in cel shaded cartoons (though volume does look more convincing) as long as they're in the right order so the floor goes from foreground to background gradually rather than being one big flat layer, which ends up looking like the characters are walking on air if we can see their shoes.

Thanks Zivouhr, I really appreciate your insight.

IMO, Working For Peanuts is a beautifully created animation short having normal looking relative-distance to each skillfully placed form. From memory, there was nothing I would call "odd" for a "shoes to air to floor" impression. One small scene may need a second-look judgement. Will definitely take more time to study the work of this early 3D jewel.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Zivouhr

I personally don't mind flat layers in cel shaded cartoons.......... as long as they're in the right order so the floor goes from foreground to background gradually rather than being one big flat layer, which ends up looking like the characters are walking on air if we can see their shoes.

When foreground-to-background can cause a flat-layer-cel character to walk on air, Disney uses a shadow to mask the oddness of the effect.

Capture of gradual layering with feet-on-ground example:

[Show spoiler]Snapshot-2015-07-17 at 09_42_05 PM-1146720206.jpg

Feet slightly off-ground with effect neutralized by a shadow:

[Show spoiler]off ground.jpg

[Zivouhr]

Thanks Paul, good images of Donald Duck with and without a ground shadow.
Without using conversion technology and just basing it on the layers of cels, the floating on air floor effect is tough to avoid.

-------
I'm still wondering how Star Chaser's cel shaded animation pulled off it's amazing, strong 3D layering with volume of the ground for a movie from 1985 or so, though I imagine the use of early CGI has a little something to do with some of it.

[bavanut]

Working for Peanuts is one of my favorite 3-D cartoons of the 1950s. It is a fine example of planar animation rendered in stereo.

However, there are a few technical lapses evident in the film. Here are two examples.

Figure 1. Dale stands on a ledge. Note that his right foot has negative parallax in relation to the edge. This makes it appear that Dale is floating in space above the ledge.

Figure 2. A real blink-and-you'll miss it moment, as the wrong artwork appears for one or two frames in the right eye only.

[Show spoiler]Figure1.jpg

Figure2.jpg

[Zivouhr]

Nice observation, thanks Mike.

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This reminds me of Casper: Boo Moon 3D from the 3-D Rarities blu ray 3D collection. That was a vintage cel animated film with some great 3D layering.

Disney's Beauty & the Beast and the Little Mermaid offered some impressive medium 3D layers and volume of the characters and backgrounds, though Lion King's 3D was a bit too mild for what I was hoping for when I saw it in theaters.

War of the World's Goliath blu ray 3D offers cel animation in stereo 3D, but offers mild to medium 3D, and some strange layering with shadows, where the character is popping out from the ground their standing on, along with their shadow beneath them. It looks like they layered it, but only as the layer the character was on in the computer program, and not how they would appear if they were really standing on the floor. In this case, they're rising above the floor, floating. Even so, I'm still glad they went for offering it in 3D, otherwise I may have not bothered to see it.

[juanbauty@yahoo.es]

Would love to see Starchaser in Blu-Ray 3D....

here the anaglyph's youtube version...

Starchaser clips in TRUE 3D! - YouTube