4K UHD signal into 1080P TV? - Blu-ray Forum

Herr Eickhorn · 09-16-2017, 08:57 PM

It has been reported that a 4K UHD disc playing in a 4K UHD player down converted to 1080P and displayed on a 1080P TV is a much better picture than the picture from a regular 1080P Blu-ray disc.

This has been my experience when doing comparisons with the Blade Runner 4K UHD disc set.

Has anyone else noticed this and why exactly would it be? Are there any other tips to extract out a better pic when running a 4K UHD down converted signal into a 1080P TV?

Its nice that I can see a significant PQ improvement without a 4K TV. It makes me want to keep buying 4K UHD discs while I shop for a 4K TV.

Is this something that I will experience with every 4K UHD disc?

Just wanted to start a little discussion on this phenomena since most people are still running 1080P displays. Thank you.

JohnAV · 09-16-2017, 11:11 PM

KRW1 · 09-17-2017, 12:26 AM

Yeah, let's have this discussion as I'm on the cusp of buying a player, mainly for the atmos soundtracks and usually watch movies on a 1080p projector. I assumed the only picture upgrade I could expect would be from the better masters used for the 4k scan.

Herr Eickhorn · 09-17-2017, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Why Does 4K Look Better on 1080p Monitors - YouTube

Thank you for the excellent link. I watched it about 10 times in order to absorb all the info. in it. The guy talks fast and all this stuff is new to me.

If I understand the gist of what he is saying is that chroma sub sampling makes regular 1080P 4:2:0. So in each 4 pixel set it is discarding 75% of the color info in order to achieve a 50% data reduction.

However, when 4K is down-converted to 1080P you get true 4:4:4 which means every pixel carries full information. And that's why it looks so good because its using the full potential of 1080P for the first time ever!

That's pretty damn interesting and perhaps a dirty little secret that the TV manufacturers probably don't want you to know. In other words, they want you to buy a 4K TV and don't want you to know you can get a lot better PQ from your old 1080P TV set by feeding it a down converted 4K signal.

So its really a no brainer. Everyone with a 1080P TV should get a UHD BD player first and buy UHD disks. Feed that into your 1080P TV so it can reach its maximum potential.

I'll be happy doing that for the time being while 4K TV technology matures and improves and I learn more. Then I might consider buying something new.

KRW1 · 09-17-2017, 07:44 AM

From what I've read, it's not that simple because you have the additional complication/benefit of HDR so you need a player that can disable it or convert it well.

Herr Eickhorn · 09-17-2017, 07:50 AM

I don't claim any expertise on this subject, but my new Panasonic DMP-UB200 UHD BD player made it simple. It automatically detected that my TV was 1080P and down converted the UHD/4K HDR signal to 1080P SDR. I didn't have to do a thing.

KRW1 · 09-17-2017, 11:14 AM

Yes, the Panasonic player(s) and the Oppo are two I know of that convert it easily but I'm not sure that they all do or do well.

Herr Eickhorn · 09-17-2017, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRW1

Yes, the Panasonic player(s) and the Oppo are two I know of that convert it easily but I'm not sure that they all do or do well.

I was very impressed with the PQ from the new Panasonic when I played the Blade Runner UHD disc. These players are very very new and mine was a pre-order which turned out to be serial number 1253! Best $250 I ever spent.

I'm excited about unlocking the un-tapped potential of my 1080P Panasonic 65" plasma TV!

JohnAV · 09-17-2017, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Eickhorn

I was very impressed with the PQ from the new Panasonic when I played the Blade Runner UHD disc. These players are very very new and mine was a pre-order which turned out to be serial number 1253! Best $250 I ever spent.

I'm excited about unlocking the un-tapped potential of my 1080P Panasonic 65" plasma TV!

Oh my

While a UHD player is of some benefit to older 1080P plasma owners. Most of these sets no longer have the original brightness levels that they had when new, and certainly don't have the appeal of 4K OLED displays which is what most plasma owners gravitate to. Buying a 4K UHD BD player is an placeholder to your future display purchase.

Herr Eickhorn · 09-18-2017, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Oh my

While a UHD player is of some benefit to older 1080P plasma owners. Most of these sets no longer have the original brightness levels that they had when new, and certainly don't have the appeal of 4K OLED displays which is what most plasma owners gravitate to. Buying a 4K UHD BD player is an placeholder to your future display purchase.

Agree! The UHD player buys me some time and lets me have some fun before diving head first into 4K. So much to learn about 4K and the technology seems to be evolving quickly. Thanks again for your help!

stigdu · 09-18-2017, 10:00 AM

Yes, thanks John and Herr Eickhorn - this is all really useful information.

I've got my eye on the new Sony X800 player (I'm in the UK, not sure if it has the same model number in the US?) and am hoping it also makes the process simple. It will be connected directly to a Panasonic GT50 plasma.

LordoftheRings · 01-01-2018, 07:48 AM

The awesome 4K LG OLED TVs are the way to go with 4K Blu-ray players like Oppo 203/205.
Some of those OLED TVs might have some image retention (burn-in logos like CNN for example, unfortunately and very real), but if you don't watch too much regular TV news and sports, you might be in better position to get impervious to that factual issue over time.

Anyway, there are Sony OLED too, and Panasonic OLED in Canada and in the UK. I don't know if they are better @ image retention than LG. I've only read that Sony OLED TVs are very very nice...A1E.
And, there are also LED FALD TVs that are sweet, and better @ image retention. Sony is good here too...Z9D.
And ... QLED TVs ... Samsung. I don't know how they handle burn-in images, no clue.

Anyway, it's good to be well informed and up-to-date. Because a TV we bought 2-3 years ago might reveal flaws today that were not present back then. And even some 2017 LG OLED TVs. We keep track to be on top...

Nothing is good forever, nothing last.

I've also read that Panasonic 4K Blu-ray players, with their Hollywood video processor chip, are the best @ performing UHD to standard HD...HDR > SDR (4K HDR to 1080p). But I didn't test it, I've only read it, from a fair bunch.

Now, on a specific case involving a Sony 4K BR player and a JVC 1080p front projector:
• https://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/4...1080p-display/

Anything/everything we do in life we do differently than anyone else. Good thing because it would be boring to live in North Korea.

LordoftheRings · 01-01-2018, 07:52 AM

Happy New Year!
---
Bonuz:

wozman · 01-05-2018, 02:27 PM

In November I took the plunge and bought the Panasonic 4K Player (DMP-UB400) and I have been thoroughly impressed....... Already had the Receiver that was 4K ready in the Pioneer Elite SC-95, and was full Atmos ready (5.2.4) with the Pioneer Atmos ready speakers and noticed that allot of the movies only had the Atmos soundtrack on the 4K disc, so that was one of the reasons of my upgrade. Now I still sit with a 1080p display the 55" Panasonic ST60.

I have found that the picture quality is pretty solid, with the down conversion, and I have never witnessed 4K movies on 4K Displays OLED etc other then walking thru a Best Buy.....but I am quite pleased, with what I currently have. Can't afford a display upgrade yet, as both my Plasma's still working fine (Pioneer Kuro and Panasonic ST60) can't justify the upgrade yet, but I have my eye on the new Panasonic OLED's. Saw one @ 2001 Audio/Video and it looked fantastic.....WOW. It will probably be my first choice if I was to buy a new Display today the Panasonic OLED. Only issue I have is that Panasonic is not in the Dolby Vision game? is that a real big thing???? I believe there is a format war still going correct.....

And if I decide I want Dolby Vision I would have to go with the LG OLED, and then would need a new 4K player (which I just got one) as Panasonic doesn't like Dolby Vision. I would have to pay a penny for the Oppo? PLUS I would think that I would need a new receiver too correct? CRAZINESS. I just bought my Pioneer Elite SC-95 2 years ago!!!!

09-16-2017, 08:57 PM	#1
Herr Eickhorn Member Member since:Jan 2011 Blu-ray reviews:3	4K UHD signal into 1080P TV! It has been reported that a 4K UHD disc playing in a 4K UHD player down converted to 1080P and displayed on a 1080P TV is a much better picture than the picture from a regular 1080P Blu-ray disc. This has been my experience when doing comparisons with the Blade Runner 4K UHD disc set. Has anyone else noticed this and why exactly would it be? Are there any other tips to extract out a better pic when running a 4K UHD down converted signal into a 1080P TV? Its nice that I can see a significant PQ improvement without a 4K TV. It makes me want to keep buying 4K UHD discs while I shop for a 4K TV. Is this something that I will experience with every 4K UHD disc? Just wanted to start a little discussion on this phenomena since most people are still running 1080P displays. Thank you. Last edited by Herr Eickhorn; 09-17-2017 at 09:39 PM.

09-17-2017, 12:26 AM	#3
KRW1 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Oct 2012 Blu-ray collection:45	Yeah, let's have this discussion as I'm on the cusp of buying a player, mainly for the atmos soundtracks and usually watch movies on a 1080p projector. I assumed the only picture upgrade I could expect would be from the better masters used for the 4k scan.

09-17-2017, 07:44 AM	#5
KRW1 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Oct 2012 Blu-ray collection:45	From what I've read, it's not that simple because you have the additional complication/benefit of HDR so you need a player that can disable it or convert it well.

09-17-2017, 07:50 AM	#6
Herr Eickhorn Member Member since:Jan 2011 Blu-ray reviews:3	I don't claim any expertise on this subject, but my new Panasonic DMP-UB200 UHD BD player made it simple. It automatically detected that my TV was 1080P and down converted the UHD/4K HDR signal to 1080P SDR. I didn't have to do a thing.

09-17-2017, 11:14 AM	#7
KRW1 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Oct 2012 Blu-ray collection:45	Yes, the Panasonic player(s) and the Oppo are two I know of that convert it easily but I'm not sure that they all do or do well.

09-18-2017, 10:00 AM	#11
stigdu Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Mar 2010 Location:Surrey, UK 4K collection:790 Blu-ray collection:1312 DVD collection:260 Trading Score:5	Yes, thanks John and Herr Eickhorn - this is all really useful information. I've got my eye on the new Sony X800 player (I'm in the UK, not sure if it has the same model number in the US?) and am hoping it also makes the process simple. It will be connected directly to a Panasonic GT50 plasma.

01-01-2018, 07:48 AM	#12
LordoftheRings Special Member Top contributor Member since:Mar 2010 Location:Portishead ♫	The awesome 4K LG OLED TVs are the way to go with 4K Blu-ray players like Oppo 203/205. Some of those OLED TVs might have some image retention (burn-in logos like CNN for example, unfortunately and very real), but if you don't watch too much regular TV news and sports, you might be in better position to get impervious to that factual issue over time. Anyway, there are Sony OLED too, and Panasonic OLED in Canada and in the UK. I don't know if they are better @ image retention than LG. I've only read that Sony OLED TVs are very very nice...A1E. And, there are also LED FALD TVs that are sweet, and better @ image retention. Sony is good here too...Z9D. And ... QLED TVs ... Samsung. I don't know how they handle burn-in images, no clue. Anyway, it's good to be well informed and up-to-date. Because a TV we bought 2-3 years ago might reveal flaws today that were not present back then. And even some 2017 LG OLED TVs. We keep track to be on top... Nothing is good forever, nothing last. I've also read that Panasonic 4K Blu-ray players, with their Hollywood video processor chip, are the best @ performing UHD to standard HD...HDR > SDR (4K HDR to 1080p). But I didn't test it, I've only read it, from a fair bunch. Now, on a specific case involving a Sony 4K BR player and a JVC 1080p front projector: • https://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/4...1080p-display/ Anything/everything we do in life we do differently than anyone else. Good thing because it would be boring to live in North Korea.

01-05-2018, 02:27 PM	#14
wozman Special Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Ontario, Canada 4K collection:425 Blu-ray collection:740 DVD collection:28 MA collection:44 Digital collection:149 iTunes collection:198 Trading Score:1	In November I took the plunge and bought the Panasonic 4K Player (DMP-UB400) and I have been thoroughly impressed....... Already had the Receiver that was 4K ready in the Pioneer Elite SC-95, and was full Atmos ready (5.2.4) with the Pioneer Atmos ready speakers and noticed that allot of the movies only had the Atmos soundtrack on the 4K disc, so that was one of the reasons of my upgrade. Now I still sit with a 1080p display the 55" Panasonic ST60. I have found that the picture quality is pretty solid, with the down conversion, and I have never witnessed 4K movies on 4K Displays OLED etc other then walking thru a Best Buy.....but I am quite pleased, with what I currently have. Can't afford a display upgrade yet, as both my Plasma's still working fine (Pioneer Kuro and Panasonic ST60) can't justify the upgrade yet, but I have my eye on the new Panasonic OLED's. Saw one @ 2001 Audio/Video and it looked fantastic.....WOW. It will probably be my first choice if I was to buy a new Display today the Panasonic OLED. Only issue I have is that Panasonic is not in the Dolby Vision game? is that a real big thing???? I believe there is a format war still going correct..... And if I decide I want Dolby Vision I would have to go with the LG OLED, and then would need a new 4K player (which I just got one) as Panasonic doesn't like Dolby Vision. I would have to pay a penny for the Oppo? PLUS I would think that I would need a new receiver too correct? CRAZINESS. I just bought my Pioneer Elite SC-95 2 years ago!!!!

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