Killing The Hobby

[Professor Echo]

Dark Sky Selects is committed to delivering a meticulously curated selection of high-quality, limited edition film releases and exclusive merchandise to the collector's market.

This continuous flow of Limited Edition, swag heavy, special "Collector's" releases are killing the hobby. At some point people will stop with this colored vinyl nonsense invading the films on disc hobby and give up on trying to score the next big edition. I'm surprised it's lasted as long as it has so far, but the shine of it is still strong given that few ever imagined we'd see a day of grade Z movies being treated with Art Museum respect. I think that will wear off soon enough and where will largely merch-less, minus showboating packaging labels like KINO be? Can they withstand this era of Circus hype releases?

[MifuneFan]

There will always be a collector's market. If anything, I'd say it's growing, not shrinking (see also: Hype beasts). I'd also consider it a sign of a healthy market that smaller labels and companies believe the market is strong enough to support a premium release of a mediocre film. I also don't see how it has any impact on a company like Kino that isn't doing that. They aren't losing business to Dark Sky Selects. In the grand scheme of things, collector's editions have been around since the dawn of home video. We saw way more elaborate ones back in the DVD era, and they weren't all for top-tier films.

[Telemachus]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

few ever imagined we'd see a day of grade Z movies being treated with Art Museum respect

Lol it's been out of hand. The "special edition" is no longer that special. Not every film is created equal on price, some things belong in the bargain bin or the priced down release rack. As much mud as one can throw on a label like Mill Creek because of their swingy encodes/compression at least they give me cheap as dirt options for some films I might not otherwise bother buying but for $9.99 or less I will. I am simply not paying $40-$50 for every film I buy, or $30 for shop exclusive 2k Shout Factory Blu rays. I do not see how this is sustainable at all since every label does this now and they are all competing with one another. Take 88 Films/Eureka/Arrow/Shout Factory/Vinegar Syndrome, all put out tat editions of the same HK films in some cases. I tend to just go with the cheaper import standard sets unless I really love it, VinSyn is super overpriced now imo, I have stopped buying a lot of their films, I'm broke!

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

There will always be a collector's market. If anything, I'd say it's growing, not shrinking (see also: Hype beasts). I'd also consider it a sign of a healthy market that smaller labels and companies believe the market is strong enough to support a premium release of a mediocre film. I also don't see how it has any impact on a company like Kino that isn't doing that. They aren't losing business to Dark Sky Selects. In the grand scheme of things, collector's editions have been around since the dawn of home video. We saw way more elaborate ones back in the DVD era, and they weren't all for top-tier films.

But you are ignoring the extra cost all this collector's market brings. I just don't think that films on disc can withstand that and I believe it will take down labels that don't engage in it along with the rest when the well goes dry. You're saying that this "collector's market" is stronger than something like Beanie Babies, but I don't see it the same way.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

But you are ignoring the extra cost all this collector's market brings. I just don't think that films on disc can withstand that and I believe it will take down labels that don't engage in it along with the rest when the well goes dry. You're saying that this "collector's market" is stronger than something like Beanie Babies, but I don't see it the same way.

Extra cost to who? The consumer who is deciding to pay that, or not? Unless it's the only way to buy a particular film, I don't see how this is relevant. Also, if there was any concern about costs being too high, and these labels were losing money, then they would no doubt adapt, and all lower prices, but that isn't happening. The idea that more expensive editions will take down labels that don't join is kind of silly fear-mongering in my opinion. I'm not even sure how wide of a net you're trying to cast here with this rant. Like what exactly are you including with it?

[Telemachus]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

(see also: Hype beasts)

Aren't you exactly the same, though? Lol You are always starting threads on new drops and hyping up what's new over what's old. Not a dig at you, just straight facts from what I've seen of you around here. I honestly figured you get paid by the labels to make threads here.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Extra cost to who? The consumer who is deciding to pay that, or not? Unless it's the only way to buy a particular film, I don't see how this is relevant. Also, if there was any concern about costs being too high, and these labels were losing money, then they would no doubt adapt, and all lower prices, but that isn't' happening. The idea that more expensive editions will take down labels that don't join is kind of silly fear-mongering in my opinion.

What do you mean "extra cost to who?" Of course, it's an extra cost for both the manufacturer and consumer, but right now it's intentional, but that may not always be the case. At some point I do think consumers will say enough is enough with all this fluff and I said that COULD also corrupt other labels if the consumer end of it gets frustrated enough. Check out the KINO thread sometime and count the number of inquiries about slipcovers and 4K upgrading. Your accusation of "fear mongering" is unwarranted as it's more like you being naïve that any hobby can withstand blanket increases in price for gimmicks. Without a doubt those labels are riding high now and seeing the gimmick vinyl market as their justification, but I don't think it will last. And then odds on any of these labels LOWERING prices at any time to recoup losses or rekindle the hobby are very slim. I can't remember too many businesses that ever done that.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

I honestly figured you get paid by the labels to make threads here.

I too have often thought this about MifuneFan.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

Aren't you exactly the same, though? Lol You are always starting threads on new drops and hyping up what's new over what's old. Not a dig at you, just straight facts from what I've seen of you around here. I honestly figured you get paid by the labels to make threads here.

That's not the same as a hype beast at all. Like others who make threads, I do to as service to the community, not for money. I do take pride in making helpful, an aesthetically-pleasing threads, so I'll take your post as a compliment.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

That's not the same as a hype beast at all. Like others who make threads, I do to as service to the community, not for money. I do take pride in making helpful, an aesthetically-pleasing threads, so I'll take your post as a compliment.

I've often praised your posting as being helpful as well and usually knowledgeable to impart necessary info and encouraging tips. But sometimes you seem to bend over backwards to give a label the benefit of the doubt or take their side which can occasionally give a teacher's pet or paid employee feel to the post.

[gates70]

For me on every release, I hope there's a regular release and a special limited one. Speaking for myself, I always go for the limited because I've always been a collector. Now, if all they bring out is a limited edition and they make tons, that's not really a limited edition. Too many are also putting the label Collector's Edition when all they have are like 2 short extra features. Disney I'm looking at you.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

What do you mean "extra cost to who?" Of course, it's an extra cost for both the manufacturer and consumer, but right now it's intentional, but that may not always be the case. At some point I do think consumers will say enough is enough with all this fluff and I said that COULD also corrupt other labels if the consumer end of it gets frustrated enough. Check out the KINO thread sometime and count the number of inquiries about slipcovers and 4K upgrading. Your accusation of "fear mongering" is unwarranted as it's more like you being naïve that any hobby can withstand blanket increases in price for gimmicks. Without a doubt those labels are riding high now and seeing the gimmick vinyl market as their justification, but I don't think it will last. And then odds on any of these labels LOWERING prices at any time to recoup losses or rekindle the hobby are very slim. I can't remember too many businesses that ever done that.

Sorry, but this still sounds like unnecessary fear-mongering to me. Do you have any actual data, or anything other than your concerns to back up anything you're worrying about? Where are the numbers to show these costs are hurting a company like Kino? It sound a lot like the same argument about the comic book movie bubble finally bursting that some have been predicting every year for the last 20 or so years.

If you really have concerns over Kino's future, you can bring them up to Frank Tarzi directly during Kino's Shelf Space stream tomorrow:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...ostcount=95948

Shelf Space is a new monthly YouTube series from Kino Lorber exploring all things physical media. Join Frank Tarzi, the head of acquisitions for Kino Lorber Studio Classics, and a rotating cast of Kino Lorber producers, directors, and experts for deep dives into film, filmmaking, and the world of the disc. We're going live on our YouTube channel for Episode 1 on Monday, June 24th at 4:00pm ET / 1:00pm PT – click the bell icon on the video to receive a notification from YouTube when the stream begins. If you've ever wondered how we acquire, produce, and distribute our releases, have questions for us or strong opinions about the future of physical media, this is the space for you!

– Team Kino Lorber

[DukeTogo84]

I can understand both sides. I personally wish I didn't have to pay extra for the swag, but if it's a film I want, I'll pay the price. I personally wish every release was something like a Radiance release. Nice box, booklet, and good quality specs. A good medium ground I think.

[CuckterionCollection]

Who wants a cheap folded poster or stills of a movie? How far does a metal case get you? What about some other trinket with your movie? But if we are talking special features, well then that's a different story, to me anyway. I like commentary tracks. I find the lure of Indicator enticing, and maybe in the long run they'll have better releases but for now kino's wider selection appeals more to me. Would you rather buy a Kino UHD or a feature rich, extra well packaged standard bluray from someone else? I imagine this will be the reality for a number of films. I think Kino gets the essentials right, and it's hard to know what the future holds for other companies. It's all about buying the right release. Why buy The Shootist from Arrow if you think it'll come out on UHD from someone eventually.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

Lol it's been out of hand. The "special edition" is no longer that special. Not every film is created equal on price, some things belong in the bargain bin or the priced down release rack. As much mud as one can throw on a label like Mill Creek because of their swingy encodes/compression at least they give me cheap as dirt options for some films I might not otherwise bother buying but for $9.99 or less I will. I am simply not paying $40-$50 for every film I buy, or $30 for shop exclusive 2k Shout Factory Blu rays. I do not see how this is sustainable at all since every label does this now and they are all competing with one another. Take 88 Films/Eureka/Arrow/Shout Factory/Vinegar Syndrome, all put out tat editions of the same HK films in some cases. I tend to just go with the cheaper import standard sets unless I really love it, VinSyn is super overpriced now imo, I have stopped buying a lot of their films, I'm broke!

I feel the same. Even if I wanted a lot of the TAT gimmick editions, I couldn't afford them or at least justify the added expense for things like packaging and poker chips or key chains or whatever. It's not that I don't appreciate some swag and nice packaging, just that it exceeds my budget for the product.

I was not happy that VynSyn got 5 CARD STUD and couldn't even put the great trailer on it (which they themselves used to promote the release on YouTube). I continually hope and pray that KINO outbids all these other specialty labels so I am not totally priced out of the hobby.

[The hitcher]

Colored vinyl didn't kill the vinyl collecting hobby though.

[starsteam]

Poor distribution and scratched discs bother me more than limited tat editions. Though limited non-tat releases with no alternative to buy (ex: Shout's site exclusives) bug the hell out of me too.

[50strat54]

Ten Years ago I bought an Epiphone Special for $100 at Guitar Center at one of their Holiday Sales.

It said on the back of the headstock: Limited Edition Epiphone Custom Shop with a very nice logo stamp!

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by The hitcher

Colored vinyl didn't kill the vinyl collecting hobby though.

Not yet!

[Kenneth M]

Just a couple things

One, Mifune, don't let this take any wind out of your sails. You've helped aware me many times in the past so please keep it up. If you can accept that the absence of negativity in your posts can be misread, then you're right in reading it as probably the biggest unspoken compliment you can get.

Two, this brings me back to the Anchor Bay cookie tins! Man what a shelf space anomaly those were!

Personally, I don't care about anything but content and we are seeing a response to that with companies now including an extra movie. (Ninja Terminator, Bruceploitation Box) Now I will always jump on that and hope we see more limited editions with extra movies of beat-up, last surviving elements on BD as a special feature. That's exciting! But the oversized boxes and trinkets matter naught.

Which leads me to Three, that the title to this thread should read "for me" at the end, as it's a personal thing. Not a universal one. But, I can understand the frustration. Disposable income can be a finite resource and these limited editions turn those purchases into a quality vs quantity debate that was never such a widely contentious consideration in days past.