Would it be possible to make a hybrid 4K 3D movie?

[thestrangestick]

I've been wondering if it would be possible to bump up the perceived quality of a 3D movie to near 4K levels by taking the left eye image (for movies where the left eye image is identical to the normal 2D stream) and replacing it with the 4K stream from the 4K blu-ray.

Either by using a full screen Top and Bottom 3D layout (for a 4K 3D TV) or by using a normal frame packed container but limiting to films that were released on 4K bluray with a 2K DI (but that still had a noticeable improvement in detail level over the 3D or standard blu).

My assumption is that the brain would blend the image together seamlessly with the less detailed right eye image, and the result would be the same 3D image but with slightly more detail.

Has anyone ever attempted this? Is it even possible? My assumption is based on the understanding that right eye images are already lesser in quality to the left eye image, but the brain resolves the images together in desirable quality regardless.

[tomtastic]

You could do it. It would look awful and uncomfortable. Most 3D films now are converted. The left eye view does not always equal the 2D 4K/2D blu ray data. The conversion process changes alignment as well as depth cues.

And if you did take the 4K disc data for the left eye and use the right eye from the 3D disc, the two images would not blend together in 3D. One would be higher resolution (the left). You would be better off running the left 4K source thru some conversion first (which would again look awful and not as authentic as the 3D disc itself).

The right eye image on Blu ray 3D is not less detailed than the left. The data stream can be up to 50 percent less data with MVC compression, but that is the compression algorithm at work to save space by discarding redundant information. The dependent stream (right) shares data when viewing the disc where it needs to but you never have a less detailed stream because of it.

[Blu-Ray 3D President]

They better give us 4K 3D TVs first.

[thestrangestick]

Originally Posted by tomtastic

The right eye image on Blu ray 3D is not less detailed than the left. The data stream can be up to 50 percent less data with MVC compression, but that is the compression algorithm at work to save space by discarding redundant information. The dependent stream (right) shares data when viewing the disc where it needs to but you never have a less detailed stream because of it.

Aaaaah thanks for clarifying that!

I still would be curious how much the human brain would accommodate for the differences. Case in point: the MI:Fallout copy that came from streaming services. If you stretched out the right eye from the SBS and used the left eye from standard blu-ray, (assuming the left eye is same as 2D, I understand it often isn't) would it increase the quality or just make your brain have a stroke? Guess I might try it one of these days!

[SillyG]

It sounds like something that could very well be done but it also sounds like a bit of a headache for something that will likely yield an imperceptible benefit.

I just wish that 3D generally wasn't phased out. There was a thunder storm that claimed two of our TVs (both 3D/HD LCD TVs), and we now only have one working 3D TV in the house (our insurance replaced the two destroyed TVs with UHD ones as HD alternatives were no longer available).

The Nintendo 3DS was also a unique piece of kit that hasn't been replicated since. It's hard to pinpoint where it had all gone wrong, but I think the lack of content and the majority of "3D" movies being post-converted (which would have underwhelmed audiences) would have been the primary reasons for its demise. I generally avoided post-converted rubbish and have only bought 3D films that were natively shot as such.

[Gellert]

The newest 4k version of the Darbee processor will make 3D discs extremely close to 4K UHD quality.

[Headspace10]

Originally Posted by Gellert

The newest 4k version of the Darbee processor will make 3D discs extremely close to 4K UHD quality.

Any projectors that we know will use it?

[Mobe1969]

An interesting proposition. I know that I was surprised when my Sony projector happily played 3d with a HDR Rd 2020 3d source (from my Lumagen). I thought it wouldn't work. But now when I play 3d my projector is accepting it in bt2020 color space. I doubt it'd take 4k 2020 3d but it does to frame packed 2020 3d. So I'm theory it will do her 3d source if a player could generate it

[Just_Discovered_3D]

So there are present-day 3D projectors that will play 4K in 3D? Even without blurays that could still be useful for gaming.

If the MVC encoding scheme works by identifying the differences between the right eye and left eye frames, if only there a way to work that in reverse and use MVC's "list" of differences to create the right eye view from the 2D on a 4K disc.

The point raised here about professional 3D conversions is well taken, as from what I've read the conversions have been known to even alter scenes to make the 3D experience better, though I would be willing to watch such a 4K 3D conversion

[tomtastic]

Originally Posted by Just_Discovered_3D

So there are present-day 3D projectors that will play 4K in 3D? Even without blurays that could still be useful for gaming.

If the MVC encoding scheme works by identifying the differences between the right eye and left eye frames, if only there a way to work that in reverse and use MVC's "list" of differences to create the right eye view from the 2D on a 4K disc.

The point raised here about professional 3D conversions is well taken, as from what I've read the conversions have been known to even alter scenes to make the 3D experience better, though I would be willing to watch such a 4K 3D conversion

You can't just make up the information for the other view. When you encode to MVC or side by side or top bottom, anaglyph checkerboard, whatever you have to have both left and right views completed. You need that information to start with. All the MVC does is take that information and compress it down into a playable 3D format for 3D capable devices. it is really nothing more than an extension of h.264 compression. So as it encodes the two views it has the two streams to extract data from and compress into MVC container. A 2D 4K stream is only half the data needed, so it wouldn't work at all unless you had the other stream or if you just duplicated the left stream into a new right stream, you would just end up with a 2D stream that was MVC, a flat image.

There's another problem with 4K 3D Blu rays and that's that almost nothing would support them right now, aside from LG's 2013-2016 4K 3D panels but they would only display in half 4K resolution/eye like 1080p 3D passive screens. Projectors would not display them at all in 3D. We really are stuck at 1080p for 3D for now until the tech catches up but since 3D has been largely phased out, it's hard to say when that would happen.

[Just_Discovered_3D]

Originally Posted by tomtastic

You can't just make up the information for the other view. When you encode to MVC or side by side or top bottom, anaglyph checkerboard, whatever you have to have both left and right views completed. You need that information to start with. All the MVC does is take that information and compress it down into a playable 3D format for 3D capable devices. it is really nothing more than an extension of h.264 compression. So as it encodes the two views it has the two streams to extract data from and compress into MVC container. A 2D 4K stream is only half the data needed, so it wouldn't work at all unless you had the other stream or if you just duplicated the left stream into a new right stream, you would just end up with a 2D stream that was MVC, a flat image.

There's another problem with 4K 3D Blu rays and that's that almost nothing would support them right now, aside from LG's 2013-2016 4K 3D panels but they would only display in half 4K resolution/eye like 1080p 3D passive screens. Projectors would not display them at all in 3D. We really are stuck at 1080p for 3D for now until the tech catches up but since 3D has been largely phased out, it's hard to say when that would happen.

Maybe I'm not having the "manger-level" understanding of MVC right, as the gist I'm getting is that it compresses the right eye frame by storing what makes it different from the left eye frame.

Seems to me that a 4K projector would just be a firmware update away from doing DLP link at 4K. Might as well do it now and try and use it for marketing, since 3D gaming at 4K is just a couple of clicks away in almost any PC game.

While I haven't tested this, I noticed that my old 1080p projector renders 3D at 1080p144. It can't accept a signal input at that, but it can accept 3D at 1080p72 and displays that. I'm hoping that 4K DLP chips are similar in that they can display at 120 or 144 Hz but they just can't accept that input natively yet.

But that would be enough allow them to display 4K 3D at the temporal resolutions we're used to

[David M]

Originally Posted by thestrangestick

I've been wondering if it would be possible to bump up the perceived quality of a 3D movie to near 4K levels by taking the left eye image (for movies where the left eye image is identical to the normal 2D stream) and replacing it with the 4K stream from the 4K blu-ray.

The bigger problem is that the 4K BD will almost certainly be in HDR, and the 3D BD is SDR. You would have to re-grade each shot to sort-of match the grading. Even then, it'd have an interesting effect where your right eye would obviously be seeing a lower-res image. I'm not sure of exactly what effect that would have on the viewer.