Quick Question Regarding What UHD Players Do During Blu-ray/1080p Upconversion...

[IntelliVolume]

Getting closer to deciding on a UHD player...

Wanted to know: When one of these are upscaling a Blu-ray in 1080p resolution to 4K, what happens on the HDR side of things? Does the HDR algorithm get "applied" to the Blu-ray for output on a 4K display, or is HDR ignored on BD and DVD?

I'm thinking the answer to this question is NO, because it's the 4K discs that are AUTHORED with HDR information, correct (and Blu-rays carry no such flag/data)?

If HDR IS applied to Blu-ray upconversion, what do the results usually look like? Would I need to have my Samsung display's "HDR+" post-processing feature ON if I wanted faux-HDR processing on Blu-ray playback?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Getting closer to deciding on a UHD player...

Wanted to know: When one of these are upscaling a Blu-ray in 1080p resolution to 4K, what happens on the HDR side of things? Does the HDR algorithm get "applied" to the Blu-ray for output on a 4K display, or is HDR ignored on BD and DVD?

I'm thinking the answer to this question is NO, because it's the 4K discs that are AUTHORED with HDR information, correct (and Blu-rays carry no such flag/data)?

If HDR IS applied to Blu-ray upconversion, what do the results usually look like? Would I need to have my Samsung display's "HDR+" post-processing feature ON if I wanted faux-HDR processing on Blu-ray playback?

Only 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs have native HDR. 4K Ultra HD discs use HDR10 to SDR conversion when connected to a 4K display or 1080P display that has no HDR feature. If you own a 4K display with HDR and play a Blu-ray disc without HDR it well be outputted as native SDR (Standard dynamic range).

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Only 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs have native HDR. 4K Ultra HD discs use HDR10 to SDR conversion when connected to a 4K display or 1080P display that has no HDR feature. If you own a 4K display with HDR and play a Blu-ray disc without HDR it well be outputted as native SDR (Standard dynamic range).

Thank you very much, sir.

[danny24]

He pretty much nailed it.

4K UHD Blu-rays have native HDR and if you own a 4K TV set that does not support HDR it get's displayed as SDR. You get the 4K res but without the HDR. Some 4K UHD Blu-rays have Dolby Vision and if your TV set supports it gets output as Dolby Vision, if it doesn't gets output as HDR.

Blu-ray will always be 1080p but most 4K UHD players do a great job of upscaling Blu-ray to 2160p resloution so even regular Blu-ray's look almost as good as 4K UHD Blu-ray except with no HDR.

DVD's can look good upscaled to 4K but it depends on your player, the best for this is Oppo, Panasonic models. Close up shots look good but far away shots is where the detail lacks with DVD but that's the case even with a 1080p set.

So if you want to get the full advantage of 4K UHD Blu-ray never buy a TV set that does not support HDR/HDR 10 and Dolby Vision.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by danny24

He pretty much nailed it.

4K UHD Blu-rays have native HDR and if you own a 4K TV set that does not support HDR it get's displayed as SDR. You get the 4K res but without the HDR. Some 4K UHD Blu-rays have Dolby Vision and if your TV set supports it gets output as Dolby Vision, if it doesn't gets output as HDR.

Blu-ray will always be 1080p but most 4K UHD players do a great job of upscaling Blu-ray to 2160p resloution so even regular Blu-ray's look almost as good as 4K UHD Blu-ray except with no HDR.

DVD's can look good upscaled to 4K but it depends on your player, the best for this is Oppo, Panasonic models. Close up shots look good but far away shots is where the detail lacks with DVD but that's the case even with a 1080p set.

So if you want to get the full advantage of 4K UHD Blu-ray never buy a TV set that does not support HDR/HDR 10 and Dolby Vision.

Thanks very much, as well, Danny; indeed, I know a good player makes all the difference, which is precisely why I originally moved from a first-generation Panasonic DMP-BD10A to the Oppo BDP-83 (the Panasonic's proprietary processor rendered DVDs almost unwatchable on a 50" set with aliasing galore; in comparison, the Oppo's Anchor Bay VRS chip wipes the floor with the Panasonic). This is also another major reason why I wanted to turn to Oppo for my next-gen player (a UHD deck) but, obviously, that didn't work out.

Glad to know that Panasonic is among the brands making UHD players that excel in DVD upconversion (a very strong selling point for me personally because I have so much invested in the format), however I did read on forums such as this one that their early UHD players were plagued with a decoding chip error of some kind that rendered DVDs all but unplayable...

As for your last comment regarding buying a set that doesn't support those HDR platforms, I unfortunately did buy a Samsung display (the company's brand-new 8 Series/NU8000 which is their premium line just under the QLEDs) that does not support Dolby Vision and instead supports only their own backed HDR algorithm, HDR10. I hope 4K discs look at least decent on it, as we couldn't afford anything "more premium" than the display we purchased.

[oddbox83]

The upconversion on the Oppo frequently astonishes me. It's in the chroma upsampling on Blu-rays where I can see real benefit in getting a player that upscales well. 1080p to 2160p is the easy part as it's an even upsample.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

The upconversion on the Oppo frequently astonishes me. It's in the chroma upsampling on Blu-rays where I can see real benefit in getting a player that upscales well. 1080p to 2160p is the easy part as it's an even upsample.

Thanks; which Oppo -- the 203 or 205?

[wxman2003]

I still prefer my OPPO 103D sending 1080p to my LG E6 and letting the tv do the upscaling. The added benefit of darbee processing makes the image look better than the OPPO 203 or Panny 900.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

I still prefer my OPPO 103D sending 1080p to my LG E6 and letting the tv do the upscaling. The added benefit of darbee processing makes the image look better than the OPPO 203 or Panny 900.

Interesting; indeed, perhaps the Darbee processing is doing something to make the image look better (I don't know; I only own the BDP-83 which doesn't boast Darbee algorithms)...however, on my setup, I can see where my Samsung display is introducing aliasing (jagged edges) and other malformations when it's doing its 1080p-to-4K upscaling (even though it's supposed to be highly-rated in that regard with a "superior" 4K scaling engine)...things I didn't see before on discs I'm VERY familiar with. Thus, I'd like to relieve this upscaling duty to a good, solid UHD player eventually...

That said, I still have to properly calibrate the display for Blu-ray playback, so I'll see where picture quality stands after that.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by intellivolume

thanks; which oppo -- the 203 or 205?

203.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

203.

I see; well, if it's anything like my BDP-83 (I wanted to snag a 203 but waited too long) then I know DVD upconversion is outstanding.

At this point I have to see which players are doing the best Blu-ray and DVD upscaling to 4K.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

I see; well, if it's anything like my BDP-83 (I wanted to snag a 203 but waited too long) then I know DVD upconversion is outstanding.

At this point I have to see which players are doing the best Blu-ray and DVD upscaling to 4K.

Panasonic has been dubbed "the new Oppo" with their premium 4K players.

These days pretty much any decent gear will do a good upscale of the luminance (detail) but what sets the excellent apart from the average is the chroma upsampling. Deep saturated reds in particular, which are frequently blocky due to the 4:2:0 colour compression look stunning with BD as a source on the Oppo upscaled to 4:4:4 (and no doubt on any equally good player). It doesn't do quite as good a job with DVDs because of the more limited resolution but still makes an excellent job of it.

My previous player was a Sony BDP-S5200, which don't get me wrong was an excellent player for the price and will continue to serve me in another room, but I could tell the difference right away when I upgraded to the Oppo.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

Panasonic has been dubbed "the new Oppo" with their premium 4K players.

Good to know; thank you...

But would this "premium" moniker apply to the 800-series and those?

These days pretty much any decent gear will do a good upscale of the luminance (detail) but what sets the excellent apart from the average is the chroma upsampling. Deep saturated reds in particular, which are frequently blocky due to the 4:2:0 colour compression look stunning with BD as a source on the Oppo upscaled to 4:4:4 (and no doubt on any equally good player). It doesn't do quite as good a job with DVDs because of the more limited resolution but still makes an excellent job of it.

My aforementioned Panasonic DMP-BD10A, which I now use in the bedroom connected to a 40" LG LCD, exhibited horrible red aliasing and other visual problems during DVD upconversion to 1080p into a Sony SXRD rear projection set; no matter what adjustments I made or calibration tweaks were performed on the display, this player just wouldn't allow me to enjoy DVDs without pretty aggressive noise, pixilation and, notably, jaggies. The BDP-83 solved these issues immediately (unless, of course, there was a problem inherent in the transfer of the disc I was watching), and that's the reason I'm a bit hesitant to trust Panasonic again to DVD playback duties (after all, I just upgraded my display to 65-inches from 50-inches and that, combined with the UHD/4K upsampling of the display, is getting me worried about how DVDs will look).

My previous player was a Sony BDP-S5200, which don't get me wrong was an excellent player for the price and will continue to serve me in another room, but I could tell the difference right away when I upgraded to the Oppo.

THAT'S precisely what I'm concerned with...

[oddbox83]

From the reviews I've read, the Panasonic upscaling in their high end 4K players has been favourably compared to the Oppo and vice versa even though they do it slightly differently. Their entry level 4K players apparently have cheaper components.

Mind you, the new Sony's get rave reviews as well though I can't recall reading much about their upscaling ability to the detail of the above. It's been a few months since I last looked, mind.

If Oppo hadn't thrown in the towel, I'd be recommending theirs no hesitation, but now for the high asking price you've got the worry over how long they will offer firmware support.

https://www.whathifi.com/oppo/udp-203/review

https://www.whathifi.com/panasonic/dmp-ub900/review (Looks like the UB9000 is replacing this model, but should be a good indication of what to expect.)

https://www.whathifi.com/sony/ubp-x1000es/review (Doesn't look much though, personally? Maybe a case of big things come in small packages.)

A new one on the scene from Cambridge might shake things up a bit and take Oppo's vacant place at the top end of the market.

https://www.whathifi.com/cambridge-audio/cxuhd/review

[CZAR]

When I play a regular bluray 1080P, I have my TV setting set to HDR Effect and it looks much better then not having that effect on.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

From the reviews I've read, the Panasonic upscaling in their high end 4K players has been favourably compared to the Oppo and vice versa even though they do it slightly differently. Their entry level 4K players apparently have cheaper components.

Good to know; so at this point, which Panasonics would you say are the ones to look at for solid Oppo-like DVD and BD upconversion?

Mind you, the new Sony's get rave reviews as well though I can't recall reading much about their upscaling ability to the detail of the above. It's been a few months since I last looked, mind.

I would consider any player that got high marks for premium upscaling, because this is an important factor to me due to our massive investment in Blu-ray and DVD...

If Oppo hadn't thrown in the towel, I'd be recommending theirs no hesitation, but now for the high asking price you've got the worry over how long they will offer firmware support.

The reason I didn't jump on an Oppo 203 that a local Magnolia outlet had one of is precisely because I was worried about ongoing support for the machine -- that said, I was assured that they will continue to support their hardware for some time to come, so who knows.

https://www.whathifi.com/oppo/udp-203/review

https://www.whathifi.com/panasonic/dmp-ub900/review (Looks like the UB9000 is replacing this model, but should be a good indication of what to expect.)

https://www.whathifi.com/sony/ubp-x1000es/review (Doesn't look much though, personally? Maybe a case of big things come in small packages.)

A new one on the scene from Cambridge might shake things up a bit and take Oppo's vacant place at the top end of the market.

https://www.whathifi.com/cambridge-audio/cxuhd/review

Thanks for all the links; yeah, I have put the Panasonics and the Cambridge players on my consideration list...I don't know which to pick.

Edit: Yeah, that Sony, now that I've looked at it via the link, doesn't look all that impressive -- especially considering it's an ES model!

It will probably come down to a Panasonic or the Cambridge...

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by CZAR

When I play a regular bluray 1080P, I have my TV setting set to HDR Effect and it looks much better then not having that effect on.

Thanks CZAR.

Interesting that you brought this up because I've been discussing HDR all over the forum; it seems my new Samsung display has the "HDR+" post-processing algorithm which is supposed to give this "faux-HDR effect" to regular Blu-rays and DVDs (or to cable TV), but from everything I have read it's best to have this OFF because it's just a "gimmick."

Can you tell me what you really like about leaving yours ON? What kind of television do you have?

[Alister_M]

Personally I find forced-HDR on SDR content on my Sony looks like garbage, it just crushes the hell out of the blacks and brings all the noise and clipping right to the forefront. I use the HLG setting, which only emphasises the brighter areas of the image and leaves the darker bits as-is, which looks far more natural.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Alister_M

Personally I find forced-HDR on SDR content on my Sony looks like garbage, it just crushes the hell out of the blacks and brings all the noise and clipping right to the forefront. I use the HLG setting, which only emphasises the brighter areas of the image and leaves the darker bits as-is, which looks far more natural.

Thanks Alister.

Appreciate your input; what kind of Sony display do you have? Would you suggest I leave my Samsung's HDR+ post-processing OFF when viewing SDR material?

[Alister_M]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Thanks Alister.

Appreciate your input; what kind of Sony display do you have? Would you suggest I leave my Samsung's HDR+ post-processing OFF when viewing SDR material?

It's a KD-X8500E 55" LED. So not the the most powerful panel, it's not even Dolby Vision capable. Not bad for one step above entry-level though.

When it comes to processing, I'd say just play around with the settings and see what happens, until you get it looking the way you want. I'm generally of the opinion that the least processing the TV does on the image the better, especially when it comes to HD and UHD content.