Batman Begins Discussion

[Dastari]

I was really surprised to see that Batman Begins doesn't already have a discussion thread.



In my opinion this is the best of the Nolan Batman films. It takes all of the elements that we know about Batman - orphaning, friendship with Commissioner Gordon, bat motif, gadgets, mastery of disguise, detective skills, martial combat, and no-kill rule and created a logical basis for how all of those elements came together. The twist

[Show spoiler]that Ra's al Ghul was actual Ducard instead of that random asian guy

was really well done. I remember sitting in the movie theater when that shoe dropped and going "ooooooh" and looking over at my friend who was doing the same thing.

Maybe Liam Neeson and Cillian Murphy didn't get the most screentime, but that's because this is Batman's origin story. They needed villains who were already fully formed and didn't need a huge amount of exposition to give us what we needed to know to follow them in the movie. I also really liked Katie Holmes as Rachel, and I thought her having to come to grips with Bruce's "mask" was an elegant way of showing us that Batman is the real character.

I shouldn't forget about the score. I absolutely love it, and it made it's way to my movie soundtrack albums quickly after I saw the film. It's still one of my favorite soundtracks.

So yeah, this is my favorite of the Nolan films and possibly my favorite Batman film of all time, although The Batman is giving it serious competition. I do have the 4K version of the film, and I have to say that I didn't notice all of the problems that people are commenting on over at the 4K discussion thread. I just wish that there had been an Atmos track option in addition to the theatrical 5.1. 5.1 is fine, but I think that a well done Atmos remaster could have really taken this to the next level.

What does everyone else think?

[spider-neil]

Great act 1 and 2. I checked out of act 3 entirely. When they revealed the Joker card at the end I didn’t care and had no interest in TDK until reviews dropped saying it was the greatest superhero movie of all time. And it was.

[levcore]

I didn't used to like this movie but i do now and it's probably my favourite of DTK trilogy.

[Jay H.]

It's a very good movie, but my least favorite of the trilogy.

[BudBaxter]

Definitely the best of the Nolan trilogy IMHO, & probably my favourite comic book movie.

It's one of the few films I've got to the end of my first viewing & watched again straight way.

[Poya]

Great first 2 acts but Nolan dropped the ball with the 3rd. He does away with the realistic tone for a generic superhero 3rd act. If he was looking at Year One for inspiration, he'd know to keep it all simple.

[Moviefan2k4]

This is my fave of the Nolan trilogy as well. I was also shocked in 2005 by the Ducard twist, especially since Neeson and Bale played so well off each other. Seeing Katie Holmes in something other than Dawson's Creek was a welcome addition back then, and I was very disappointed that she opted out for the sequels. I also enjoyed Cillian Murphy as the Scarecrow; his scenes just freaked me out, but that was the point.

[rubystone356]

A few years before covid. I did a Batman Marathon.

I started with Batman Begins, then did Batman v Superman, Batman Returns and Batman Mask of the phantasm. It was very interesting to see the different version of Batman through different filmmakers.

I like begins the most on the Nolan films. while Dark knight had better pacing. begins was more both real and fantasy more then straight real for the dark knight..

yes, I like The Batman over all of Nolan films. Its the best Batman since Burton.

[Warm Gun]

Shared my opinion in the 4K thread. Not a very good movie. None of the trilogy is.

"But is Ra's al Ghul immortal?"

If only, Mister Ducard. If only. The idea of superheroes and villains is pretty absurd, no matter how much the filmmakers try to remove the more fantastic comic-like elements. Avoiding it all just makes your work look confused and pretentious. The water vaporizing weapon and all the power/water mains and trains feeding into Wayne Tower and the League of Shadows sacking Rome and burning London are almost silly enough to be Batman, but the tone and villains aren't, which makes the aforementioned plot devices feel dumber. Scarecrow doesn't even seem that interested in his own science and doesn't fully concoct the fear toxin himself. It's just a plant he gets from the League of Shadows and synthesizes into a gas, not his own research into fear and phobias. Ra's al Ghul had to be turned into a regular guy, the Lazarus Pits cut, because fantasy is a giant no-no. Even though it's a ****ing comic about men and ladies in silly costumes battling and plotting. It needs to embrace the theatricality and fantasy of what it intrinsically is so that it all doesn't come off feeling like it's trying so desperately to be something else. It takes itself so seriously.

What I strongly suspect is that there were creative differences between co-writers David S. Goyer and Christopher Nolan. A tug of war of what this movie should be, with Goyer leaning more on comic and Nolan leaning more on realism.

[Warm Gun]

Hated the no name character saying out loud what will happen if the train reaches the tower. Embarrassing exposition, that.

[JamesKurtovich]

IMO, the best version of the Nolan Batman.

[stvn1974]

I liked it and was excited by the Joker card at the end. Then I saw The Dark Knight and it wasn't any good. The Dark Knight Rises is one of the dumbest films ever that I have ever seen. But I still like Batman Begins.

[Warm Gun]

People say Gotham looks more like Gotham than in the sequels, but the only places that do are the island with the prison and Wayne Tower. The rest is mostly Chicago.

[HomerThompson]

I think the narrows being set-based feel like an otherworldly Gotham.

[HomerThompson]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Hated the no name character saying out loud what will happen if the train reaches the tower. Embarrassing exposition, that.

No name? That’s Shane Rimmer.

He’s always there to help behind the controls lol

From Bond…



to Superman…



And Batman…



The real hero lol

[Dastari]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Shared my opinion in the 4K thread. Not a very good movie. None of the trilogy is.

"But is Ra's al Ghul immortal?"

the League of Shadows sacking Rome and burning London are almost silly enough to be Batman, but the tone and villains aren't, which makes the aforementioned plot devices feel dumber.

I will say that the part that works the least for me. I prefer the Eco-terrorist version of Ra's from Batman: The Animated Series, because that's an easily defensible reason for why he wants to cause that kind of damage to mega-cities that spew out high amounts of pollution. The idea that they somehow think that humanity will change if a major city is destroyed is the most ludicrous part of the story.

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

Scarecrow doesn't even seem that interested in his own science and doesn't fully concoct the fear toxin himself. It's just a plant he gets from the League of Shadows and synthesizes into a gas, not his own research into fear and phobias. Ra's al Ghul had to be turned into a regular guy, the Lazarus Pits cut, because fantasy is a giant no-no. Even though it's a ****ing comic about men and ladies in silly costumes battling and plotting.

Eh, I never got that. Scarecrow needs the flower to make his gas. That doesn't mean that he didn't do the research and concoct the gas on his own and later only went to the League because they could supply him with more of the flower. We just don't have enough of the Scarecrow's backstory to say.

As for the Lazarus Pit, that's a failing of the later movies. Begins can't be criticized for that. I kept expecting Ra's to show up in the sequels (yes I get there's the fakeout from The Dark Knight Rises) with the explanation that one of his followers found his body after Begins and took him to a Lazarus Pit. I feel that it was short-sighted of Nolan not to use that idea in either of the sequels, but Begins definitely left that open as a possibility.

Originally Posted by HomerThompson

No name? That’s Shane Rimmer.

He’s always there to help behind the controls lol

All this time I thought it was Burt Ward. His voice at least sounds like what I imagine an aged-up Burt Ward would sound like. Holy Water Mains Batman! I thought that was the reason that they kept focusing on him. Not a major issue, but now that I know that isn't Ward that bit is a lot more ludicrous and it greatly diminishes it in my eyes.

[BudBaxter]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

People say Gotham looks more like Gotham than in the sequels, but the only places that do are the island with the prison and Wayne Tower. The rest is mostly Chicago.

The sequels definitely gave up on trying to create 'Gotham' & just renamed Chicago for the most part, but at least Begins kinda tried with The Narrows (which was mostly a purpose-built set in the UK).

The only bit that's instantly recognizable to me in Begins is Chicago's Lower Wacker Drive in the tumbler chase, but that's only because I've watched The Blues Brothers so many times & it gets namechecked in that movie as they're going through it.

[stvn1974]

I've lived in Chicago, not even Batman could clean that place up.

[joshsquash729]

I've definitely grown to appreciate Begins more through the years. I always liked it, but I was 11 when it came out and didn't yet appreciate the finer aspects of superhero flicks, especially darker, slower ones like this. But it has my favorite villain, Scarecrow, in it, so bonus points there. Cillian Murphy did a great job with the role, and it remains one of my favorite interpretations. I enjoy the film more and more every time I've watched it lately.

[-JKR-]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

Great act 1 and 2. I checked out of act 3 entirely. When they revealed the Joker card at the end I didn’t care and had no interest in TDK until reviews dropped saying it was the greatest superhero movie of all time. And it was.

I actually really like the 3rd act of Batman Begins, with the situation escalating in Gotham City, and Batman and Gordon joining forces to stop Ra's Al Ghul and the Scarecrow.

What is that?

- Backup.