To Project, Or Not To Project? That Is The Question.

[Ben_R]

I’m currently in 1080p land. It’s not a bad place to be but the itch for upgrading increases with every 4K release I pick up but can’t watch.

I’m currently on a calibrated Panasonic TX-P65VT65B which was a real hard one to get past the missus due to the size. Being realistic, if upgrading to a decent 4K OLED it’s going to have to be 75” or above and i’m not sure if i’ll get that past her.

So what I am thinking is a smaller maybe no TV, then go projector with a 7ft - 8ft screen.

If I decide to go down this path I want to do it properly, using good reliable kit and only once.

So with that said can I get some ball park figures and some advice. This is a whole new game to me and seeing $20,000 price tags for a projector has me thinking its not even a remote possibility!

[CatBus]

Your 20K projectors will be fine projectors indeed, but you don't need to go that far. But you do need to know exactly what you're compromising on when you buy something more pocketbook-friendly.

In DLP-land, those pricey projectors have three color wheels, which makes it look just like a real theater because that's literally what your real theater is using. You can get significantly cheaper "consumer" DLPs with a single color wheel, but the downside is rainbow effect.

You may want to see a DLP projector in your price/quality range in action first. If you, or anyone who will be regularly watching it, is sensitive to the rainbow effect, it's best to figure that out right away. i.e. if you can see the rainbows when you're not actively trying to make yourself see them, that should probably rule out one-wheel DLP for you. If not, well, one-wheel DLP's are actually pretty great in all other respects and should be considered.

But don't go crazy on the cost-cutting. Your lower-end "Office" DLP projectors are pretty awful for RBE. Higher-end movie/gaming projectors will be better, but RBE is still present for those sensitive to it.

Also modern LCD projectors can be quite good too and are worth looking at.

[Ben_R]

I was thinking about sticking with bulbs for the better black levels.

The Epson Pro Cinema LS12000 4K PRO-UHD is of interest but understand there isn't a Dolby Vision projector available in this category yet and it doesn’t support 3D.

[samlop10]

Can you control ambient light in the room where it’s going?

Windows, lights, etc will affect the picture quality on a projector screen. Ambient Light Rejection screens can help lower that negative impact but they’re more pricey and it’ll still not look as good as a TV.

Otherwise, if you can completely blackout the room, then I’d say a projector is a good option.

If not, I’d still try to stick to a TV.

[Ben_R]

Yes. Close doors, pull curtains & switch off lighting. I wanted it that way for viewing the plasma.

It’s a main living room, the only light in winter would be from the open fire but the guard does cut this down considerably.

[samlop10]

A projector is likely a good option then. The less ambient light and less reflections in the room the better.

[Ben_R]

What sort of price am I looking at for a decent projector? 6K plus?

[samlop10]

‘Decent’ will depend a lot on what you perceive to be good quality.

If you can go up to $7K, the JVC DLA-NP5 is an amazing projector. That uses a lamp/bulb. If you can go higher, you can get better 4K quality with a laser projector from JVC as well (like the NZ7). If you need to go lower, I’d recommend an Epson LCD projector. If you really want 3D an Epson Laser LCD projectors is a no go, but if you can skip the 3D the Epson Ls12000 is good at $5K. Not as good as the JVC DLA-NP5, but it’s cheaper and uses laser. If you need to go even cheaper, I’d recommend the Epson 5050UB or 6050UB; they’re essentially the same projectors internally, but the 6050 comes in black with an extra lamp, a mount, and an extra year of warranty. Those are lamp/bulb projectors and not native 4K, but they do accept 4K/HDR signals and still display a higher resolution than 1080p. The Ls12000 can displays the ‘full’ 4K resolution.

I will say if you get anything that is not a JVC, you should probably get a Panasonic 4K disc player to get good HDR. HDR on projectors can be pretty tricky. The JVCs have good tone mapping built-in, the Epson’s aren’t bad per say, but some HDR content will not look great without better tone mapping like the one done by one of the newer Panasonic 4K players (UB420or higher). If you stream, the JVC’s will be better with the included tone mapping, since the Panasonic 4K players can only tone map 4K discs and not streaming.

[Ben_R]

My current TX-P65VT65B is decent to me. By todays standards, not so sure. I like a good picture, natural & no inherent problems.

If this can be had for a reasonable (<— v. subjective) sum then I am game.

I am not able to view anything already set up in a showroom so am blindly fumbling my way through the net.

I’ll look further in to the JVC, thanks for the heads up on it.

[samlop10]

I should add, if you’re intending to 100% replace a TV with a projector, and you will use it as a TV (I.e. watching it daily), it’d be better to go for a laser projector as those will basically last as long as a TV would. With a lamp/bulb projector you will likely need to replace the lamp fairly often as the brightness will decrease faster with more use (roughly every 6 months or so).

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by samlop10

If you can go up to $7K, the JVC DLA-NP5 is an amazing projector. That uses a lamp/bulb. If you can go higher, you can get better 4K quality with a laser projector from JVC as well (like the NZ7)

Agreed, amazing. I own the NP5. Just to clarify, the NP5 and NZ7 are the exact projector except for lamp vs laser. There is no difference with PQ per se. In fact, the NP5 has a bit more balanced wide color gamut because the NZ7 uses blue laser which has deficiencies without a P3 filter. Kris Deering has talked about this. But the differences here are minor. The NZ7 does get a bit brighter and will lose light output slower.

[Ben_R]

Thanks all. That JVC seems a nice bit of kit. A bit over what I had thought about budget wise but taking 7.5 as maximum what can I expect?

Is tech progressing fast or slowly with projectors? For example, how long is it before the top tech and specs like lenses and bulbs filter down to the 7.5k models? Do things like that happen in the projector world?

Will Dolby Vision be happening anytime soon for projectors in this price bracket.

Also, if buying a previous model can you get a better bang for your buck?

[HeavyHitter]

Projection progress is generally very slow and incremental. JVC and Sony are the only manufacturers who offer true native 4K panels under $100K. JVC is the only FP manufacturer that includes frame by frame dynamic tone mapping which is a game changer (vs static tone mapping on the rest). Otherwise, one has to look toward expensive (or HTPC) external methods such as Lumagen and madVR for DTM. JVC also has the higher native contrast by far of any of the competitors.

Hard to say if DV will ever happen for front projection since that relies on more controls (vs short throw that comes with a screen, for example).

But you really want a black/dark room to get the full benefit. It makes a really big difference. I would strongly consider a flat panel for anything under 100" at this point.

However, you really do that that "film-like" look with FP and especially LCoS/D-ILA with the tight pixel fill. Watching a well mastered UHD BD looks like an actual film print at home especially at 124".

[samlop10]

Agreed. I’ve been keeping track of projectors for over a decade and the technology indeed moves pretty slowly. It took quite a while for them to get native 4K resolution (way after 4K TVs came out), and HDR handling has been rough. JVC has been the first projector that doesn’t require an external tone mapping device, or move-by-movie HDR adjustment.

Never say never, but I don’t foresee any big advances in 4K projectors for quite a while. Wider color capabilities and contrast might improve but not in any major way imo.

I think if you go for the NZ7 you’ll be set for quite a while.

If I had already bought my own place I would go for that one or the NZ9.

Short of $100K+ projectors, those JVCs are the ones to go for right now.

[Ben_R]

Thanks again. The NZ7 seems good but for the difference in price the NZ8 *might* be something I can investigate further.

I think 8ft is going to be the maximum sized screen I can get away with, is that going to be okay or a waste?

Whilst on the subject of screens, I assume some will be better than others.

Are there any specific materials I should be looking for when looking for a screen? Are tensioned screens a must?

Also, the price of a screen. 1.5K?

[samlop10]

8ft comes to just under 100”. Either the NZ7 or NZ8 will be plenty for a screen size that big.

Do you plan to always watch it in a completely black room or sometimes watch it with some ambient light on (lights, windows, etc.)? That will affect which screen material to get.

Also, where will your speakers be located? Under or next to the screen? Or behind it? That will also affect it.

[Ben_R]

I’m going to have to reconfigure things as this is going to be set up in the main living room. I think from a cost perspective it will have to be for movies only.

When we watch a movie it’s always in the dark, as I mentioned above the only problem with light will be the open fire during the winter months.

I have a 7.1 system that has been reduced to a 5.1 due to logistics and space issues.

The front speakers will be at either side of the screen with the centre channel underneath.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Ben_R

Thanks again. The NZ7 seems good but for the difference in price the NZ8 *might* be something I can investigate further.

I think 8ft is going to be the maximum sized screen I can get away with, is that going to be okay or a waste?

Whilst on the subject of screens, I assume some will be better than others.

Are there any specific materials I should be looking for when looking for a screen? Are tensioned screens a must?

Also, the price of a screen. 1.5K?

8ft wide or diagonal? Also, are you going scope? My preference if used for movies.

Fixed frame screens are ideal as tension screens tend to develop issues over time aside from potentially seeing waves, etc.

But you're going to still have to make sure your room is treated properly. For example, light or egg white walls and light carpet are not going to do it any justice. There is a thread at AVS that gets into a lot of treatments and options. Velvet around the screen is almost a must, for example.

$1.5K for a screen will likely be something more modest, but you have to realize more gain equals seeing more screen artifacts. The darker/blacker the room, the less gain you can get away with. I would recommend Stewart although there are less expensive options.

[Ben_R]

An 8ft wide screen or as close to 96” would be ideal but I don’t think I will get a screen in scope (2.40:1) in that size. I’m not sure what that works out as on the diagonal but I think scope is the way to go if I can.

I’m not going to be able to use a fixed frame as the screen needs to be hidden/put away during the day.

I’ll see if I can find that thread on AVS now, thanks for the pointer.

I’ll have a look at Stewart screens too.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Ben_R

An 8ft wide screen or as close to 96” would be ideal but I don’t think I will get a screen in scope (2.40:1) in that size. I’m not sure what that works out as on the diagonal but I think scope is the way to go if I can.

I’m not going to be able to use a fixed frame as the screen needs to be hidden/put away during the day.

I’ll see if I can find that thread on AVS now, thanks for the pointer.

I’ll have a look at Stewart screens too.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the...#post-61851619