Were the first three Disney Princesses pushovers?

[PhysicalMediaMaestro]

It's the year 2025, and lots of people are celebrating the 75th anniversary of Disney's 1950 animated classic "Cinderella".

But not everyone. In fact, there are some people who see not only Cinderella as weak, but Snow White and Princess Aurora from "Sleeping Beauty" as well. They see the first three Disney Princesses as bad role models because they see them as weak.

Different people have different definitions of strength/courage. There are people who define strength/courage as putting yourself in danger to save someone else. There are people who define strength/courage as going somewhere no one else has gone before. There are people who define strength/courage as pushing yourself outside your comfort zone.

But those who see Snow White, Cinderella and Aurora as pushovers have a problematic definition of strength/courage. They define strength/courage as "standing up for yourself and not taking other people's abuse/mistreatment/unfairness." There are three big problems with this definition:

1. A lot of people with a sense of entitlement and/or very little life experience see unfairness where it doesn't exist.
2. In the process of standing up for themselves, they might do things much worse than anything their abusers ever did to them, including murder or terrorism.
3. Worst of all, innocent bystanders who had no hand in the perceived abuse/mistreatment/unfairness get caught in the crossfire.

So what do you think? Are the first three Disney Princesses (Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora) strong or weak? Please let me know, and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by PhysicalMediaMaestro

It's the year 2025, and lots of people are celebrating the 75th anniversary of Disney's 1950 animated classic "Cinderella".

But not everyone. In fact, there are some people who see not only Cinderella as weak, but Snow White and Princess Aurora from "Sleeping Beauty" as well. They see the first three Disney Princesses as bad role models because they see them as weak.

Different people have different definitions of strength/courage. There are people who define strength/courage as putting yourself in danger to save someone else. There are people who define strength/courage as going somewhere no one else has gone before. There are people who define strength/courage as pushing yourself outside your comfort zone.

But those who see Snow White, Cinderella and Aurora as pushovers have a problematic definition of strength/courage. They define strength/courage as "standing up for yourself and not taking other people's abuse/mistreatment/unfairness." There are three big problems with this definition:

1. A lot of people with a sense of entitlement and/or very little life experience see unfairness where it doesn't exist.
2. In the process of standing up for themselves, they might do things much worse than anything their abusers ever did to them, including murder or terrorism.
3. Worst of all, innocent bystanders who had no hand in the perceived abuse/mistreatment/unfairness get caught in the crossfire.

So what do you think? Are the first three Disney Princesses (Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora) strong or weak? Please let me know, and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

I don't think any of them are inherently weak or inferior...but you're certainly right about accepted norms being completely out of whack nowadays. For every animated version of Ariel, Belle, or Mulan, there's recently been a live-action portrayal that's the complete opposite in so many ways - it's truly sad.

[ImBlu_DaBaDee]

Of all the threads I’ve seen on this forum, this is certainly one of them.

[benricci]

Originally Posted by PhysicalMediaMaestro

So what do you think?

I think you're way overthinking the moral fortitude of some old cartoon characters. This is certainly.....a take, I guess.

[wonderer99]

They were products of their time, that's all. To judge and question mentalities and artistic decisions from 70 years ago is bizarre at best.

[PhysicalMediaMaestro]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I don't think any of them are inherently weak or inferior...but you're certainly right about accepted norms being completely out of whack nowadays. For every animated version of Ariel, Belle, or Mulan, there's recently been a live-action portrayal that's the complete opposite in so many ways - it's truly sad.

Yes, it is sad. I'm disturbed that there are Cinderella horror movies in circulation. Cinderella was never intended to be a violent or vengeful character.

[TotallyTuned]

These stories are OLD.

Cinderella - 1st variant between 7BC and 23AD

Sleeping Beauty - sometime between 1330 and 1344

Snow White - 1812 written down, probably older in oral tradition

Disney has already sanitized the stories nearly to death. Rather than updating them to the point that they no longer resemble the original story, I think we should go back to the originals and make them pure period pieces.

Besides, if you eliminate dated ideas from dated stories, you're also eliminating teachable moments.

[Prohibida]

Pretty Woman was my first Disney princess.

[Slopeshreder]

Yawn. They’re only weak seemingly to those that get hung up on generation differences and take no more than a cursory look at the characters.

[merlinjones]

Cinderella remained "ever gentle and kind" despite the horrible abuse she received. She had the strength to preservere and hold tight to her dreams and her ethics. Not only that, she nurtured the animals of the chateau in the way she herself was deprived. This giving heart came back to her in spades as those she cared for loved her back and helped make her dreams come true. Not caving to bitterness and anger and retribution but allowing love and inner strength to triumph was her great power as a character.

Snow White similarly did not give into the cruelty and despair but found a way to survive with a smile and a song and an unyielding belief that her wishes and dreams would come true. She also decided to give of herself to those who helped her survive, which came back to help her in the dark times. Her naivete was perhaps her salvation.

Aurora/Briar Rose is not the main character of the film's story structure, but a human pawn in the greater game --- the struggle between the emblematic spirits of good and evil represented the the Three Good Fairies and Maleficent. She and Phillip are caught in the spokes of this operatic play with only the draw of innocence and love to shield them from all the powers of hell.

Being sassy and aggressive is not the only manifestation of strength. Nor are all characters in a situation or culture where it is possible to win by fighting back. Sometimes you have to dive within to survive and thrive and live happily ever after.

[DKLou]

Originally Posted by TotallyTuned

These stories are OLD.

Cinderella - 1st variant between 7BC and 23AD

Sleeping Beauty - sometime between 1330 and 1344

Snow White - 1812 written down, probably older in oral tradition

Disney has already sanitized the stories nearly to death. Rather than updating them to the point that they no longer resemble the original story, I think we should go back to the originals and make them pure period pieces.

Besides, if you eliminate dated ideas from dated stories, you're also eliminating teachable moments.

I don’t see what’s dated about any of it. The stories are perfectly fine as is and are still being enjoyed by people to this day. I mean the originals too, not modern-remake-BS.

I don’t get the teachable moment thing either. What does that mean? I hope it’s not the ridiculous idea that things like princes kissing sleeping girls without a public notary signing off on it is somehow date-rape or any of that nonsense. Or, the tried and true "I don’t need no man or prince to save me" crap. It is those dumb beliefs that have caused the sanitization of these stories. The live action remakes usually have nothing in common with the original characters.

Correct me if I’ve missed your point or have the wrong idea.

I’ve watched the animated classic princess films with my young daughters and various other people. I’m quite sure they’re didn’t get the wrong idea or somehow are scarred by any of it, LOL.

[Slopeshreder]

Originally Posted by merlinjones

Cinderella remained "ever gentle and kind" despite the horrible abuse she received. She had the strength to preservere and hold tight to her dreams and her ethics. Not only that, she nurtured the animals of the chateau in the way she herself was deprived. This giving heart came back to her in spades as those she cared for loved her back and helped make her dreams come true. Not caving to bitterness and anger and retribution but allowing love and inner strength to triumph was her great power as a character.

Snow White similarly did not give into the cruelty and despair but found a way to survive with a smile and a song and an unyielding belief that her wishes and dreams would come true. She also decided to give of herself to those who helped her survive, which came back to help her in the dark times. Her naivete was perhaps her salvation.

Aurora/Briar Rose is not the main character of the film's story structure, but a human pawn in the greater game --- the struggle between the emblematic spirits of good and evil represented the the Three Good Fairies and Maleficent. She and Phillip are caught in the spokes of this operatic play with only the draw of innocence and love to shield them from all the powers of hell.

Being sassy and aggressive is not the only manifestation of strength. Nor are all characters in a situation or culture where it is possible to win by fighting back. Sometimes you have to dive within to survive and thrive and live happily ever after.

If Disney knew what they were doing, they would milk the shit out of these themes. Personally, I think they nailed the 2015 Cinderella in this department. Most of the rest are hallow shells if you ask me.

[PhysicalMediaMaestro]

Originally Posted by merlinjones

Not caving to bitterness and anger and retribution but allowing love and inner strength to triumph was her great power as a character.

I don't understand why you consider unleashing your bitterness and anger as caving. When someone unleashes their bitterness or anger, if anyone is caving, it's the targets of the anger, hoping to de-escalate things before the angry person breaks something or hurts someone.

Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to earn someone's respect is to become their worst nightmare. I will never earn anyone's respect that way, because I will never become anyone's worst nightmare. I am too good-natured.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by PhysicalMediaMaestro

I don't understand why you consider unleashing your bitterness and anger as caving. When someone unleashes their bitterness or anger, if anyone is caving, it's the targets of the anger, hoping to de-escalate things before the angry person breaks something or hurts someone.

Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to earn someone's respect is to become their worst nightmare. I will never earn anyone's respect that way, because I will never become anyone's worst nightmare. I am too good-natured.

It depends on both the situation and the context of the conflict. Sometimes, a higher temperament and even violence is warranted, but we must always keep ourselves in check so our own anger doesn't control us. Villains like Maleficent, the Evil Queen, and Lady Tremaine are classic examples of jealousy giving birth to hatred. In fiction and otherwise, that's never a good thing.

[Martoto]

Is there any benefit these days from wringing our hands about these characters depicted the best part of a century ago?

[DKLou]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

It depends on both the situation and the context of the conflict. Sometimes, a higher temperament and even violence is warranted, but we must always keep ourselves in check so our own anger doesn't control us. Villains like Maleficent, the Evil Queen, and Lady Tremaine are classic examples of jealousy giving birth to hatred. In fiction and otherwise, that's never a good thing.

Agreed. Once youve gone through the proper channels as best you can then the only option left is to ratchet up the nastiness. Sorry. Maybe the original perpetrator should have thought about that before they started it?

It’s funny that there is a narrative that somehow the victims are the ones that have to act properly or are expected just suck it up and take it. It’s backwards.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by DKLou

Agreed. Once youve gone through the proper channels as best you can then the only option left is to ratchet up the nastiness. Sorry. Maybe the original perpetrator should have thought about that before they started it?

It’s funny that there is a narrative that somehow the victims are the ones that have to act properly or are expected just suck it up and take it. It’s backwards.

Sadly, when you allow jealousy to take over, it really does warp everything you think and feel. It's probably as close to the Dark Side of the Force as we'll ever have in reality. I think most of the atrocities our world has ever seen were probably started in some form by jealousy.

[Martoto]

It fair maks ye think.

[The Mad Kiwi]

I'm actually a huge Cinderella fan and think she has more vim and vigor than people give her credit for. She's actually quite sassy. In her first scene alone, she flicks the birds away when they try to wake her up and yells at the clock when it starts chiming. When Lady Tremaine accuses her of putting Gus in Anastasia's teacup, Cinderella tries three times in the scene to defend herself. She manages to successfully do so later on when the stepsisters make fun of her for wanting to go to the ball. When it turns out she can't go because of the workload she's been given, she doesn't break down but instead just sulks and tries to convince herself it would've been boring, anyway. She can be sarcastic ("Maybe I should interrupt the, uh, 'music lesson'") and gets frequently annoyed ("Oh, NOW what do they want?"). She's also not above violence if it means self-preservation like how she was going to swat Lucifer with the broom before the messenger showed up, or how she sent Bruno after him while locked up.

People ask why Cinderella didn't try to get out of her situation, but where exactly was she going to go when all of her assets are legally owned by Lady Tremaine (and have been squandered, anyway)? Plus, unlike in the live-action remake, her father died when she was very young, so she's been kept as a shut-in servant for about a decade. That kind of thing can really mess with you psychologically (see: The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Tangled). The fact that she's as sane and colloquial as she is is pretty astounding. And those who accuse her of being a gold digger whose only goal is marriage clearly haven't seen the film recently since she only went to the ball to get a night out. When the prince sees her, she's not flaunting herself at him. She's admiring the architecture and doesn't even realize he's the prince till the next morning.

I think people underestimate her because of how normal she is. She isn't the overly perky ray of sunshine that Snow White is nor does she stop a war like Pocahontas and Mulan. Instead, she's the friendly girl next door who offers a good zinger once in a while and is stuck in a job she hates but is trying to make the best of. That normalcy is why "friends" of Cindy struggle to really capture her vibe in the parks. She's probably the most realistic heroine Disney's done apart from Alice.

[PhysicalMediaMaestro]

Originally Posted by merlinjones

Cinderella remained "ever gentle and kind" despite the horrible abuse she received. She had the strength to preservere and hold tight to her dreams and her ethics. Not only that, she nurtured the animals of the chateau in the way she herself was deprived.

I like that you bring up the fact that she took care of the animals, such as the horses, the dog Bruno, the cat Lucifer, and last but not least, all those mice. At no point in the story did Lady Tremaine or Anastasia or Drizella instruct Cinderella to do anything for the mice. She took care of the mice out of her own free will, which to me, proves that she was a human being and not simply the pawn of her stepmother.