Kaleidescape's new 4K player rivals UHD BD with Dolby Vision, lossless audio

[StarFuryG7]

Kaleidescape's new 4K player rivals UHD BD with Dolby Vision, lossless audio

[HDTV1080P]

If physical media dies one day, then Kaleidescape is the ideal movie download system for videophiles and audiophiles that want 100GB 4K Blu-ray images including lossless audio and Dolby Vision HDR (system does not support HDR10+ yet). Kaleidescape movies are sometimes higher video bit rates then 4K Blu-ray discs according to the company. The only thing that is keeping this technology from taking off as the absolute best way to rent and purchase movies is the high cost of the system. If a large family has 10 or more TV’s and they need storage for over 2,000 download movies that were purchased, the Kaleidescape system will cost over $54,000+ for a system. To take advantage of the Kaleidescape system one needs to setup the system on at least two TV’s so one can access the home server and watch the same exact movie at the exact same time in two different rooms. Now if one wants Kaleidescape for the renting of movies only then the system will only cost $4,000 for each TV, since that is the cost of the Strato V for each TV location. But the real cost of the system is the hard drive servers which increases the price to $23,000-$54,000+ depending on how many TV’s are in the house. And the hard drive servers are needed for those people that own the movie. Renting the movies for a 48 hour period needs no hard drive server since the rented movies are deleted from the small capacity solid state drive.

I made suggestions in the official Kaleidescape thread at Blu-ray.com on how to bring the cost of the system down. Using high quality 24TB Western Digital hard drives for around $600 each and creating a 240TB external home hard drive server with a total of 10 24TB hard drives would be under $10,000 using a E-SATA or USB 4.0 interface enclosure. Also, I suggested creating a streaming app for a streaming box that has a 1,000Mbps ethernet connection then the cost of each additional room would be under $200 instead of $4,000 since on a wired home network streaming across the local home network would occur at 150Mbps for each TV location.

In theory with more and more consumers getting 1,000Mbps to 10,000Mbps residential Internet speeds. One day 4K Blu-ray images will be able to be streamed by Kaleidescape, Amazon, or Netflix for both buying movies and renting movies. All that is needed for 4K Blu-ray streams is 150Mbps streaming to each TV location in the house. But no streaming provider is willing to commit to that quality level yet.

One error in the article is that it mentions the HEVC video peeks are only up to 100Mbps, but 4K Blu-ray sometimes has peeks over 128Mbps and that is why streaming needs 150Mbps, but download to a hard drive server needs 1,000Mbps Internet to download a movie in 10 minutes and in the future 10,000Mbps Internet speeds will be able to download the 100GB movie in 1 minute or less.

Quote

“The company claims that its 4K movies are "encoded at an average of 65 megabits per second," with peaks up to 100 Mbps, matching or even surpassing the quality of UHD Blu-ray discs.”

In order for Kaleidescape to replace physical media the price of the system needs to come down. A programmer could create an app for the year 2016 OPPO UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player that use to sell for $549, and that programmer could with the app download 4K Blu-ray images to an external encrypted 24TB hard drive for around $600 that is attached to the OPPO (Of course studio approval would be needed). That 2016 OPPO has 1,000Mbps ethernet and all that is needed is an app and an external 24TB encrypted hard drive to start downloading some movies for rent and own (if the studios would grant approval for such a system).

Here is the link to the official Kaleidescape thread at Blu-ray.com.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=345757

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I made suggestions in the official Kaleidescape thread at Blu-ray.com on how to bring the cost of the system down. Using high quality 24TB Western Digital hard drives for around $600 each and creating a 240TB external home hard drive server with a total of 10 24TB hard drives would be under $10,000 using a E-SATA or USB 4.0 interface enclosure. Also, I suggested creating a streaming app for a streaming box that has a 1,000Mbps ethernet connection then the cost of each additional room would be under $200 instead of $4,000 since on a wired home network streaming across the local home network would occur at 150Mbps for each TV location.

According to Kaleidescape's Support site you can not use a non-Kaleiedescape hard drive:

"Can a failed hard drive be replaced with a non-Kaleidescape hard drive?

No. Kaleidescape movie servers will not recognize a non-Kaleidescape hard drive. The onscreen and browser interface will indicate when an unrecognized hard drive has been installed in a Kaleidescape movie server."

Kaleidescape is effectively a propreitary system: you must use their hardware and their software.

https://support.kaleidescape.com/art...-Strato-system

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

According to Kaleidescape's Support site you can not use a non-Kaleiedescape hard drive:

"Can a failed hard drive be replaced with a non-Kaleidescape hard drive?

No. Kaleidescape movie servers will not recognize a non-Kaleidescape hard drive. The onscreen and browser interface will indicate when an unrecognized hard drive has been installed in a Kaleidescape movie server."

Kaleidescape is effectively a propreitary system: you must use their hardware and their software.

https://support.kaleidescape.com/art...-Strato-system

I agree with what you are saying. But if the company or some other company with studio approval would use a third party 24TB hard drive, then the Kaleidescape system could encrypt the hard drive so the movies remain secure. By keeping it a closed system without the ability to use third party hardware, it keeps the system as a niche product only. In order to go mainstream the company needs to offer third party hardware and approve hard drives like the 24TB Western Digital gold enterprise drives.

Once 150Mbps or higher streams become a reality for 4K or 8K, then the Kaleidescape system will be in danger of being replaced by a streaming company. Sadly I see the Kaleidescape system being a niche product or maybe not existing anymore as a company one day unless they offer lower cost hardware or switching to 150Mbps streaming for 4K Blu-ray images.

[sapiendut]

You can already download a full 4K movie from Kscape for around 12 minutes. It’s far faster than 150 mbps.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I agree with what you are saying. But if the company or some other company with studio approval would use a third party 24TB hard drive, then the Kaleidescape system could encrypt the hard drive so the movies remain secure. By keeping it a closed system without the ability to use third party hardware, it keeps the system as a niche product only. In order to go mainstream the company needs to offer third party hardware and approve hard drives like the 24TB Western Digital gold enterprise drives.

Once 150Mbps or higher streams become a reality for 4K or 8K, then the Kaleidescape system will be in danger of being replaced by a streaming company. Sadly I see the Kaleidescape system being a niche product or maybe not existing anymore as a company one day unless they offer lower cost hardware or switching to 150Mbps streaming for 4K Blu-ray images.

Kaleidescape has made it very clear that they are marketing their services to the luxury market; they have never shown any inclination to be a "mainstream" service.

It has also been postulated that the movie studios require Kaleiedescape to be an expensive proprietary system as a requirement to distribute their movies as downloaded files in this high level of quality to make piracy of these high quality downloads much harder to accomplish.

I don't remember where I came across this off of the top of my head, but it certainly sounds plausible. The studios want very much to make piracy as difficult as they can.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

You can already download a full 4K movie from Kscape for around 12 minutes. It’s far faster than 150 mbps.

Yes around 10 to 12 minutes over a 1,000Mbps Internet connection to download a 100GB movie. What I was talking about, is that one day when streaming reaches a constant 150Mbps for each TV location, then downloading and hard drive servers in the home will no longer be needed.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Kaleidescape has made it very clear that they are marketing their services to the luxury market; they have never shown any inclination to be a "mainstream" service.

It has also been postulated that the movie studios require Kaleiedescape to be an expensive proprietary system as a requirement to distribute their movies as downloaded files in this high level of quality to make piracy of these high quality downloads much harder to accomplish.

I don't remember where I came across this off of the top of my head, but it certainly sounds plausible. The studios want very much to make piracy as difficult as they can.

Some good points, but its my understanding that the Kaleidescape system uses software based encryption technology on the hard drives and not a special hard drive that has both hardware based and software based security. Correctly me if I am wrong, but the system is only using software based encryption on the hard drive, and if that is true then any third party solid state drive or hard drive could be used if the company and studios agreed to allow the third party hard drive to install the encrypted drive format to keep the movies secure.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Some good points, but its my understanding that the Kaleidescape system uses software based encryption technology on the hard drives and not a special hard drive that has both hardware based and software based security. Correctly me if I am wrong, but the system is only using software based encryption on the hard drive, and if that is true then any third party solid state drive or hard drive could be used if the company and studios agreed to allow the third party hard drive to install the encrypted drive format to keep the movies secure.

That's kind of the whole point. Kaleidescape requires that you use their software which is only installed on their official hardware.

In order to offer such high quality downloads, the studios require robust anti-piracy measures and this is how Kaleidescape meets that requirement.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Kaleidescape has made it very clear that they are marketing their services to the luxury market; they have never shown any inclination to be a "mainstream" service.

It has also been postulated that the movie studios require Kaleiedescape to be an expensive proprietary system as a requirement to distribute their movies as downloaded files in this high level of quality to make piracy of these high quality downloads much harder to accomplish.

I don't remember where I came across this off of the top of my head, but it certainly sounds plausible. The studios want very much to make piracy as difficult as they can.

Kaleidescape wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for the very high cost of entry. If it’s too expensive then you’re not in their target audience.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Yes around 10 to 12 minutes over a 1,000Mbps Internet connection to download a 100GB movie. What I was talking about, is that one day when streaming reaches a constant 150Mbps for each TV location, then downloading and hard drive servers in the home will no longer be needed.

You can wait and wait for that day to come. Meanwhile, I’m enjoying my Kaleidescape today.

[RalphoR]

I've been looking into the new player. I'll probably pull the trigger on it by Christmas and add one of their hard drives next year. Are they offering new movies for download simultaneously with their theatrical release? If that's the case then what a huge benefit.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by RalphoR

I've been looking into the new player. I'll probably pull the trigger on it by Christmas and add one of their hard drives next year. Are they offering new movies for download simultaneously with their theatrical release? If that's the case then what a huge benefit.

Their schedule is pretty much like iTunes Movie.

[cybersoga]

We now have 1800 Mbps domestic internet connections in the UK so it's about time they raised streaming bitrates... that would make this product redundant

[Telemachus]

I had no idea what this thing even was before last year, and only seeing it name dropped around here. Once I looked into the price I realized who this was marketed to, 99% of people can't even afford this to even be curious about it, this is like a Roon/Tidal MQA setup + lifetime sub x 10. Saying this will replace discs is really pretentious and is almost humble bragging if you use it. I would rather buy a stack of DVDs and watch them on an old PS2.

[Naiera]

Originally Posted by cybersoga

We now have 1800 Mbps domestic internet connections in the UK so it's about time they raised streaming bitrates ...

That would cost them money and cut into their profits.

Originally Posted by Telemachus

Saying this will replace discs is really pretentious ...

Is anyone saying that?

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by cybersoga

This is an expensive niche product for those that want UHD blu-ray picture quality without having to buy discs. It's a bit suspect of them to compare average bitrates without saying what films they are comparing. Are they not the same encodes as the discs?

For most people iTunes movies (or similar service) is good enough.

For collectors and those who want the best picture quality for the best price UHD blu-ray discs are still the way to go.

I use my Kscape for movie rental so I can get disc quality video and lossless audio on my rentals and also to buy the movies that are not available on 4K disc and Atmos.

[cybersoga]

Which titles are on there that are not available on 4K disc?

[Fendergopher]

They make a big deal in the article about the new unit having space for a whopping 10 movies on an SSD (which is a worse suited technology for long term storage btw) but don't mention how much their Terra servers cost, which seem to be at least as expensive as the player itself.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by cybersoga

What titles are on there which you can't buy on 4K disc?

Sisu (the disc is 4K but no Atmos), Mitchell and the Machines, Voyage of the Demeter are the three latest ones I bought. Previous to that were a bunch of horror movies, a handful concerts that I can’t find in Canada,