Vudu Questions

[Streetlight]

This is a thread for questions about Vudu. Here's mine:


Is Ronin remastered?

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Ronin uses the older HD master as per the 2008 MGM/Fox MPEG-2 BD. All streaming versions use this master with variances in compression (vudu being the worst looking overall). Arrow's 4k master on their BD was created by them (reportedly mastered in finalized in 2k SDR) and is probably exclusive to Arrow until their release goes OOP.

[Streetlight]

Is 1984 the Criterion version?

[crackedknee]

1984 is sort of the same situation as noted above for Ronin. Though it's complicated by the fact that Twilight Time produced a version, so it's not impossible that is the one in Vudu. The Criterion version, when it exists on Vudu, is designated as such (see, for example, Seven Samurai).

To expand on what SpaceBlackKnight says, Vudu will usually have the worst scan, and just about any other service will have a better scan if Vudu's is inadequate. For example, Oklahoma on Vudu appears to be the old DVD scan upconverted to "HD". That scan is clearly not even the restored print. The version on FN, MA, and Amazon is clearly HD, and clearly a restored print.

Vudu made its name by having the largest available collection and being an early platform, but is now behind (I would say dead last) in quality, with the greatest compression, the lowest max bitrate, and too many shoddy scans that they refuse to upgrade. If I had to guess, I would say they designed their system around the then current HDX standard and with an eye for quantity. But have not upgraded their systems (bitrate, adaptive features, and so on), whereas everyone else (FN, Apple, MA) had thought about 4K/UHD capability, and invested in that more fully than Vudu.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by Streetlight

Is 1984 the Criterion version?

Criterion's 1984 remaster is exclusive to them, and until their licence expires won't be used on any streaming services. The master all streaming providers (including Vudu) currently have is the older MGM HD master that was used on the previous US Twilight Time and European BDs.

[Streetlight]

Is:
---Ichi the Killer,
---Memento
---Robocop (1987),
---The Terminator, and
---Fargo
remastered?
Does the Terminator 2 Special Edition iTunes have use the DNR'ed Skynet Edition or the non-DNR 2015 Edition?
Is The American Friend the Criterion version? Doesn't say so, but it uses the Criterion cover.
Is The Descent the AVC version on caps-a-holic?
Are the below movies match their BD versions, are any of them upscaled?
---The Day of the Jackal
---Heat
---Sleepless Night
---You Were Never Really There
---The King of Comedy
---Resolution
---Hardcore
---Time of the Gypsies
---Cape Fear (1962)
---The House that Jack Built
---Alien
---Hell or High Water
---Shaun of the Dead
---Hot Fuzz
---Curdled
---Dog Day Afternoon
---The Straight Story
---City of Men
---Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist
---The Exorcist
---Ripley's Game
---Girl in the Spider's Web
---Bill and Ted
---Bill and Ted 2
---The Nice Guys
---Black Sunday
---Red Eye
---Edge of Tomorrow
---Dredd
---Play Misty For Me
---A Company Man
---The Gangster, the Cop, the Devil
---The Town: Theatrical and Extended versions
---The Exorcist 3
---The Conversation
---Best F(r)iends: Part 1 and 2
---The Talented Mr. Ripley
---Doctor Strange
---Brazil
---Death Clique

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Below

Originally Posted by Streetlight

---Ichi the Killer
(Well Go 4k remaster, might be unrated)

---Memento
(2010 Lionsgate remaster)

---Robocop (1987)
(Based on blown out HD transfer used on the unreleased 2006 Sony MPEG-2 BD; also the Theatrical cut)

---The Terminator
(Based on old HD transfer used on the 2006 Sony MPEG-2 BD)

---Fargo
(2005 MGM HD transfer used on 2009 BD)

Is The American Friend the Criterion version? Doesn't say so, but it uses the Criterion cover.
(It says Criterion on the bottom the specs description, therefore it's the same transfer)

Do the below movies match their BD versions?
---The Day of the Jackal
---Heat
---Sleepless Night
---You Were Never Really There
---The King of Comedy
---Resolution
---Time of the Gypsies
---Cape Fear (1962)
---The House that Jack Built
---Alien
---Hell or High Water
---Shaun of the Dead
---Hot Fuzz
---Curdled
---Dog Day Afternoon
---The Straight Story
---City of Men
---Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist
---The Exorcist
---Ripley's Game
---Girl in the Spider's Web
---Bill and Ted 2
---The Nice Guys
---Black Sunday
---Red Eye
---Edge of Tomorrow
---Dredd
---Play Misty For Me
---A Company Man
---The Gangster, the Cop, the Devil
---The Town: Theatrical and Extended versions
---The Exorcist 3
---The Conversation
---Best F(r)iends: Part 1 and 2
---Doctor Strange
---Brazil
---Death Clique

(Since all of these are studio supplied, I'd say yes. However, there are exceptions that I took from that list and put below)

---Bill and Ted
(Different master than the one used on the MGM and Shout! BDs. This version was also seen on other streaming versions on Amazon and TubiTV, and was used on the MGM DVD as well as the StudioCanal UK BD and)

---The Talented Mr. Ripley
(All streaming versions use an older master used for the US DVD and on the overseas StudioCanal BDs. US Blu-Ray is totally different and based on what seems to be a 4k remaster, as it looks more stable and cleaner in comparison)

[Streetlight]

Screencaps for Bill and Ted and for Mr. Ripley? Links is fine if it works, are you basing the info on memory or on recent obervation?

[meremortal]

What are the average and peak bitrates for hdx? And how does it [1080p] compare to competitors such as iTunes, Amazon, etc? Someone posted a nice comparison chart for 4k streaming but I'm still trying to find more current info in regards to 1080p. Nearly half of my Vudu collection ports over to MA, but I also have a lot of stuff that does not and so I'm kind of curious if I should just consider iTunes or not buy stuff from non-MA eligible studios.

Also, can anyone think of examples where an hdx stream uses a superior print/transfer than the blu when there also isn't a uhd release?

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by Streetlight

Screencaps for Bill and Ted and for Mr. Ripley? Links is fine if it works, are you basing the info on memory or on recent observation?

Here's the thing about Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Paramount owned streaming rights to some Orion/Nelson titles, including Bill and Ted, inherited from a TV deal but MGM is the main rights holder. There were two versions of Bill and Ted on several streaming services at one point, one by Paramount the other MGM. The MGM version (HD everywhere but Amazon) uses the MGM/SF BD master, while the Paramount version (which was available to purchase on Itunes/Vudu and exclusive to Prime) used the DVD master in HD. Vudu had both to rent/buy in HD until very recently when Paramount's version vanished from every retailer that had it.

Vudu currently only has the MGM version but had the rent option dropped and can only be purchased now https://www.vudu.com/content/movies/...venture/709714

As for The Talented Mr Ripely, that I saw when it was free with ads back in October. I was told all streaming versions use the same transfer, I doubt Vudu currently changed the master out unless they were notified of an issue with the version I saw in October and got a new encode from paramount https://www.vudu.com/content/movies/...-Ripley/140084. Netflix also has the same master for Ripley if you want to see it there.

[Streetlight]

So, what about the other info?, also, I asked for caps for Mr. Ripley and Bill & Ted.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

If you read my post, the Paramount version of Bill & Ted is no longer available anywhere and Mr. Ripley is no longer free with ads. I don't screen cap as it's tricky to get proper screen grabs in decent quality.

[Streetlight]

Im talking Ichi, Robocop, Terminator, Fargo, and Memento

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by meremortal

What are the average and peak bitrates for hdx? And how does it [1080p] compare to competitors such as iTunes, Amazon, etc? Someone posted a nice comparison chart for 4k streaming but I'm still trying to find more current info in regards to 1080p. Nearly half of my Vudu collection ports over to MA, but I also have a lot of stuff that does not and so I'm kind of curious if I should just consider iTunes or not buy stuff from non-MA eligible studios.

Not sure how accurate this is, but quoted from Wikipedia:

"HDX and TruFilm

Vudu is capable of downloading and playing movies in HDX format, a format created by Vudu which encodes most titles in 1080p HD at 24 frames-per-second. Vudu utilizes the H.264 (MPEG-4 Part 10) encoding process along with proprietary encoding techniques dubbed TruFilm.[10] TruFilm is composed of four main technologies designed to maximize the H.264 encoding standard:

Psychovisual Processing: Designed to dampen and eliminate artifacting and pixelation commonly seen in areas of dark sky and water in movies by utilizing a constant algorithmic and visual check, then flagging these sections to be re-encoded.[11] See also Psychophysics and Subjective video quality.
Film Grain Preservation: A process which maintains the slight imperfections that the director of the movie decided to leave in the final film. Vudu makes multiple encoding passes over the original film, allowing the final encoded product to contain the original film grain.[11]

Statistical Variable Bitrate: Ensures optimal video quality throughout the film by allocating a higher encoding budget to high detail and high motion segments of the film, while conserving the budget during slower sequences. With peaks as high as 20Mbit/s and as low as 2 Mbit/s, this process allows for the highest possible video quality streaming over a broadband Internet connection.[11]

Color Gradient Processing: A unique technology used to tune the picture for optimal display on modern LCD and plasma televisions vs. an older CRT television.[11]

This technology is similar to the encoding methods of MPEG-2, MPEG-4-AVC, and VC1 for Blu-ray Disc. However, the bitrate for a TruFilm encode at 1080p HDX hovers around 7-16Mbit/s, which is far less than the 20-44Mbit/s rate Blu-ray Discs typically use.

4k UHD TruFilm

Vudu's 4k TruFilm uses methods similar to the Ultra HD Blu-ray format. It supports 4K UHD resolution at frame rates up to 60 frames per second encoded using High Efficiency Video Coding, also known as HEVC or H.265. TruFilm 4k uses the Rec. 2020 color space and supports 10-bit color modes such as HDR and Dolby Vision, which display greater color gamut than supported by 1080p video with Rec. 709. While UHD Blu-Ray disc can have high bitrates of 82-128Mbit/s, 4k TruFilm encodes are typically at 20-50Mbit/s depending on connection strength, which still lacks in image quality compared to UHD disc. Audio on 4k titles is presented in Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby Atmos. 4k playback on Vudu is only possible with a HDCP 2.1 certified 4k display, and a 4k compatible device with a HDCP 2.1 certified HDMI cable."

Originally Posted by meremortal

Also, can anyone think of examples where an hdx stream uses a superior print/transfer than the blu when there also isn't a uhd release?

West Side Story since it seems to be exclusive on there and not on Itunes in 4k as of yet.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by Streetlight

Im talking Ichi, Robocop, Terminator, Fargo, and Memento

Read that post again, it's at the beginning of the quote. But in case you didn't see it:

---Ichi the Killer
(Well Go 4k remaster, might be unrated)

---Memento
(2010 Lionsgate remaster)

---Robocop (1987)
(Based on blown out HD transfer used on the unreleased 2006 Sony MPEG-2 BD; also the Theatrical cut)

---The Terminator
(Based on old HD transfer used on the 2006 Sony MPEG-2 BD)

---Fargo
(2005 MGM HD transfer used on 2009 BD)

[Streetlight]

Did you base the evidence on recent observation?

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Streetlight

Did you base the evidence on recent observation?

You are asking a lot of questions, and it's best to try them yourself to see what works best for you. I'm a firm believer for the best Streaming Video you need good equipment, Bandwidth, and a proper set-up. From other Posts it seems you have an LG, but what is your equipment, Bandwidth, and how are you set-up?

[Streetlight]

Audio's not much, just mono with subwoofer, works fine.

[Liquid_Swords]

Originally Posted by meremortal

What are the average and peak bitrates for hdx? And how does it [1080p] compare to competitors such as iTunes, Amazon, etc? Someone posted a nice comparison chart for 4k streaming but I'm still trying to find more current info in regards to 1080p. Nearly half of my Vudu collection ports over to MA, but I also have a lot of stuff that does not and so I'm kind of curious if I should just consider iTunes or not buy stuff from non-MA eligible studios.

Also, can anyone think of examples where an hdx stream uses a superior print/transfer than the blu when there also isn't a uhd release?

Curious about this too. Maybe vudu vs. Apple vs moviesanywhere vs. Fandangonow

[meremortal]

Originally Posted by Liquid_Swords

Curious about this too. Maybe vudu vs. Apple vs moviesanywhere vs. Fandangonow

It's tough to really gather current data since a lot of the info out there seems pretty old. And google searches can yield results from several years ago. Digital's a tough way to really 'archive' a movie with all the competitors out there and I never really know if I'm getting the best out there. Luckily 1080p streaming, including even Netflix, Hulu, Prime, etc, is usually better pq than dvds unless they really mess it up. Soundtracks and the likes can be all over the place though with 2.0 instead of 5.1 or vice versa; and sometimes the aspect ratio is cropped. To be fair, these problems can be an issue with some blus as well. Used to always read that Vudu was among the best for 1080p and then I thought I read Amazon was supposedly higher bitrates. But then I've also read some posts claiming Vudu and Amazon are not as good anymore compared to competitors, so I'm really confused.