At World's End - Dolby Digital vs. Uncompressed PCM

[Gizmo99]

I am noticing the Dobly Digital track is beter than PCM.....

My Setup

1) Onkyo 805 - Set to "Multi Channel"
2) PS3
3) HDMI

PS3 - set to Bit Stream

Most have rave about PCM so I decided to compare PCM versus Dobly Digital using Pirates Of The Caribbean - At World's end. When comparing DD versus PCM, I noticed the Dobly Digital was MUCH louder and had more detail and clarity. The PCM track was lower in volume and dull. This seems contrary as the PCM track is supposed to sound much better. Can anyone do a AB test with that blu ray disc. Maybe my ears are malfunctioning.

Thanks

[Gizmo99]

Forgot to mention that my PS3 is set to BitStream and I was toggling between PCM / DD

[Keesie]

Originally Posted by Gizmo99

Forgot to mention that my PS3 is set to BitStream and I was toggling between PCM / DD

not an expert, but how did you even put PS3 to bitstream. I thought ps3 couldn't do that...

and bumping question for you

[Arecsa]

Set the PS3 to LPCM, not bitstream, if you're using it over HDMI and try the PCM track again.

[supersix4]

to each his own... but my ears love pcm

[DragonSarc]

PCM still sounds better

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by Gizmo99

I am noticing the Dobly Digital track is beter than PCM.....

My Setup

1) Onkyo 805 - Set to "Multi Channel"
2) PS3
3) HDMI

PS3 - set to Bit Stream

Most have rave about PCM so I decided to compare PCM versus Dobly Digital using Pirates Of The Caribbean - At World's end. When comparing DD versus PCM, I noticed the Dobly Digital was MUCH louder and had more detail and clarity. The PCM track was lower in volume and dull. This seems contrary as the PCM track is supposed to sound much better. Can anyone do a AB test with that blu ray disc. Maybe my ears are malfunctioning.

Thanks

You have your tracks reversed.

[HDJK]

Originally Posted by MatrixS2000

You have your tracks reversed.

Yes, that would be the only logical explanation.

[olitas]

It's simple, most receivers cannot play multi-channel PCM even if you are hooked up with HDMI, your okyo Receiver needs to be less than a year old and the model that was able to support multi-channal LPCM was over a 1000$ when it came out.

DD is often lounder because it's a compressed format a receivers have upconverters for that type of format that actually and artifacts that people confused with detail. These sound upconverters don't work in LPCM because the format is "pure"

For people that are hooke up in multi-channel in and digital at the same time and switch depending on sound format usually lose about 5-10% in volume because they lose gain when they go to analogue depending on quality of cable.
If you have any technicle questions just ask me, I work with these things all day

Originally Posted by Gizmo99

I am noticing the Dobly Digital track is beter than PCM.....

My Setup

1) Onkyo 805 - Set to "Multi Channel"
2) PS3
3) HDMI

PS3 - set to Bit Stream

Most have rave about PCM so I decided to compare PCM versus Dobly Digital using Pirates Of The Caribbean - At World's end. When comparing DD versus PCM, I noticed the Dobly Digital was MUCH louder and had more detail and clarity. The PCM track was lower in volume and dull. This seems contrary as the PCM track is supposed to sound much better. Can anyone do a AB test with that blu ray disc. Maybe my ears are malfunctioning.

Thanks

[Glow007]

Originally Posted by olitas

It's simple, most receivers cannot play multi-channel PCM even if you are hooked up with HDMI, your okyo Receiver needs to be less than a year old and the model that was able to support multi-channal LPCM was over a 1000$ when it came out.

DD is often lounder because it's a compressed format a receivers have upconverters for that type of format that actually and artifacts that people confused with detail. These sound upconverters don't work in LPCM because the format is "pure"

For people that are hooke up in multi-channel in and digital at the same time and switch depending on sound format usually lose about 5-10% in volume because they lose gain when they go to analogue depending on quality of cable.
If you have any technicle questions just ask me, I work with these things all day

Well if he has an Onkyo 805 then it definatly does PCM multichannel...I have a 605 and it does it beautifully and the 805 is two steps above mine. Set your PS3 to LPCM, thats what I have mine set to. I dont think bitstream will give you what you want.

And trust me, no matter whos ears, LPCM blows DD away. LPCM =

[JJ]

I think you have to have the PS3 set to output Linear PCM instead of Bitstream when using HDMI. I have it only on bitstream because in my case, DD5.1 or DTS5.1 is clearly better than LPCM2.0 matrixed out, at least, as best my ears can tell. Then again, my hookup is Optical, not HDMI.


It does bitstream audio, just the basic ones though.

[HDJK]

The Onkyo 805 is about as new as you can get, and it definitely plays multichannel PCM.

edit: Damn, people on here are too fast :-)

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by olitas

DD is often lounder because it's a compressed format a receivers have upconverters for that type of format that actually and artifacts that people confused with detail. These sound upconverters don't work in LPCM because the format is "pure"

Huh?

For PCM tracks, it doesn't matter if the PS3 is set to bitstream or PCM if you have a receiver capable of decoding PCM.

But yeah, there should be a clear night and day difference between the PCM track and Dolby Digital. Unless you just don't have the proper track selected, there is no explanation as to why the DD track would sound better.

[gear]

Agreed PCM is the same whether over bitstream or LPCM. Either way you are just sending the opure PCM signal to the recevier. On my Pioneer 92txh I can switch from bitstream to LPCM on the fly with the PS3 and there's no difference.

[Doc_Stew]

Originally Posted by gear

Agreed PCM is the same whether over bitstream or LPCM. Either way you are just sending the opure PCM signal to the recevier. On my Pioneer 92txh I can switch from bitstream to LPCM on the fly with the PS3 and there's no difference.

The PS3 can't bitstream PCM, so you have to set it to LPCM instead of bitstream. It's night and day difference switching between DD 5.1 and LPCM during the movie - try it.

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by Doc_Stew

The PS3 can't bitstream PCM

Yes it does.

[Gizmo99]

From my research, setting the PS3 to "bitstream" still enables the PCM track to be played. Hence I left it on BitStream for comparison.

I know PCM is better and provides more detail but I just dont hear it. I'll try to level adjust for volume tonight.

However, I did try this combination

PS3 = LPCM + BluRay = DD 5.1 => Very Low, volume lacked, no detail
PS3 = LPCM + BluRay = PCM => Louder than above, and provided more detail

With PS3 = LPCM, would that be eliminating the receiver to add artificial "crap" to the track hence providing a fair test and therefore allowing me to hear the full detail of PCM?

[Gizmo99]

And one more thing, I know that PCM tracks are supposed to sound better but please give this a try

turn PS3 -> BitStream and toggle between DD 5.1 and PCM. Let me know what you think.

[Gizmo99]

Originally Posted by HDJK

Yes, that would be the only logical explanation.

I double checked And no I dont have my tracks reversed. When selecting the DD track, my receiver shows "Dobly Digital" so its clearly decoding the track. Maybe the increase in volume is fooling me to believe that theres more detail in the scene.

I basically played a scene in Priates with lot of sword fighting and tried to listening to the sound of the blades and sword. The DD track gave a more pronounced sound.

Again, I will need to volume adjust tonight to see if I get more detail form the PCM track

[BStecke]

Originally Posted by Gizmo99

And one more thing, I know that PCM tracks are supposed to sound better but please give this a try

turn PS3 -> BitStream and toggle between DD 5.1 and PCM. Let me know what you think.

World of difference.

As far as the volume . . . you can listen to clean sound at a lot higher volume and tolerate it more than you can highly compressed, or underpowered, sound. Car audio is a good example of this . . . your stock car stereo is relatively low power, cheap components. When you listen to a stock stereo system at high volumes, it can bother your ears and generally doesn't sound that great. When you upgrade to some decent equipment and have a clean signal with good power, the distortion in the sound is significantly less and you can tolerate it at higher volumes because the distortion is not hurting your ears. The same goes for PCM . . . it may not "sound" as loud because you associate loud with that discomfort you get from listening to distorted sound.