DTS-HD MA bitstream decoder flaw can damage gear... - Blu-ray Forum

jon s · 03-23-2008, 06:07 AM

I don't know if anyone has seen the thread in the Blu-Ray Players section of AVS forum here, but there is a BIG issue with DTS HD-MA with the Onkyo and Yamaha (some Pioneer users have posted the same problems) receivers. Apparently the DTS decoding IC supplied to Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha is defective causing loud popping sounds which can and has damaged some audio gear. The popping noise is NOT affected by the receiver's volume control and has caused blown speakers. Unless the issue is resolved, it is not recommended to use bitstreaming DTS-HD MA on Onkyos.

"DTS Global Product manager Ronny Katz confirms that the problem is caused by a faulty DTS Decoder Chip (IC) in the Receivers of the companies of Onkyo and Yamaha. Recievers from Denon, Pioneer and Sony, which uses a different DTS Decoder Chip are unaffected and has no difficulties bit-streaming the DTS-HD MA tracks from the titles concerned. DTS has a made a fix/update to their Encoding software which will address the problem by taking the faulty DTS Decoder Chip into consideration, thus avoiding the issue on future Blu-Ray releases. It is however unknown at this time, if the Recievers with the faulty DTS Decoder chips can be fixed to work with the current DTS-MA discs by firmware update."

yellowblanket · 03-23-2008, 06:12 AM

great...i'd be very upset if my speaker blown

Bobby Henderson · 03-23-2008, 06:17 AM

I was leaning towards a Denon receiver for the SACD capability (my existing one is a 9 year old Yamaha RX-V995). This would do more to seal the deal.

mmdeleon2001 · 03-23-2008, 06:20 AM

hmmm weird!! every now n then we get this LOUD

STATIC sound!! its crazy!! but we just turn it down when we hear it!! n press stop!! this usually happens when we open like a deleted scene or just the main menu but reloading it fixes everything!!

ManUtd · 03-23-2008, 07:16 AM

Wow this is big. The DTS statement indicates that only Onkyo and Yamaha receivers are affected but that AVS thread claims that the Pioneer 91TXH is affected. I hope my 94TXH isn't affected. In any case, this sucks for all owners of the receivers pre/pro affected.

WickyWoo · 03-23-2008, 07:18 AM

Part of the consequence of them rushing everything to market I'll wager. They started way too late and rushed it, still missing Dolby's rollout by a year

DTS had better buy everyone a new reciever if it can't be fixed

Canada · 03-23-2008, 07:19 AM

What?

Ben123 · 03-23-2008, 07:25 AM

Do you have a link to this article?

quitemouse · 03-23-2008, 07:40 AM

I knew there was a reason I never liked Onkyo receivers.... (most recent
bad experience was with the 805... had to return 4 of them...)

LynxFX · 03-23-2008, 08:28 AM

Not saying that it won't or can't happen, but no equipment has yet been confirmed damaged from this. It just is a crap your pants sound that definitely needs resolved.

I'm hoping that if/when the PS3 gets the DTS MA update that this won't be a problem since it will be decoding internally and sending out as PCM.

fitprod · 03-23-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LynxFX

Not saying that it won't or can't happen, but no equipment has yet been confirmed damaged from this. It just is a crap your pants sound that definitely needs resolved.

I'm hoping that if/when the PS3 gets the DTS MA update that this won't be a problem since it will be decoding internally and sending out as PCM.

I think the PS3 will only be able to stream it through HDMI. I don't believe the current PS3 models actually have the internal decoder.

fitprod

aiman04 · 03-23-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitprod

I think the PS3 will only be able to stream it through HDMI. I don't believe the current PS3 models actually have the internal decoder.

fitprod

PS3 decodes the audio through software, not chip.

Through firmware update, the PS3 will be capable of internal decoding of DTS-HD MA and send it as PCM. It's already confirmed by Penton-Man, only don't know when.

If we talk about HBR bitstreaming by PS3, now that's the one that is in doubt it can do.

fitprod · 03-23-2008, 10:22 AM

I saw that note... I didn't realize it was a software run process. I'm used to stand alone equipment that usually has a chip.

I have a PS3, but it's not my dedicated Blu-ray player. I'm limping along with the Samsung BDP-1000 until the Panasonic DMP-BD50 or Sony's new models come out.

This is what we get when people rush ahead with things. You would think after screwing up on LD (Long delays) and DVD (Not ready at DVD launch to be included in Spec) DTS would have learned a lesson.

fitprod

PeterTHX · 03-23-2008, 10:27 AM

Stuff like this is what I was talking about in other threads. DTS was already so far behind in getting their solution out there they didn't properly bug test it.

We need to pressure Fox to go Dolby TrueHD.

wormraper · 03-23-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Stuff like this is what I was talking about in other threads. DTS was already so far behind in getting their solution out there they didn't properly bug test it.

We need to pressure Fox to go Dolby TrueHD.

why??? we already have players that stream DTS-HD and the PS3 (the most prevalent blu ray player yet) has internal decoding of DTS HD. There are just as many first gen players out there that can't decode True HD as there are DTS-HD. I don't get the hatred of DTS around here. It's a good codec. Sounds great and it's just as much supported as the other 2 lossless forms. It's just one decoder chips fault for this issue, not DTS themselves.

PeterTHX · 03-23-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wormraper

why??? we already have players that stream DTS-HD and the PS3 (the most prevalent blu ray player yet) has internal decoding of DTS HD.

Not yet it doesn't.

Quote:

There are just as many first gen players out there that can't decode True HD as there are DTS-HD.

Not even close. Pretty much only the Samsung BDP-1000 and Philips can't. All the rest have been firmware updated to support Dolby TrueHD.

Quote:

I don't get the hatred of DTS around here. It's a good codec. Sounds great and it's just as much supported as the other 2 lossless forms. It's just one decoder chips fault for this issue, not DTS themselves.

DTS wrote the buggy software that causes the issue!

wormraper · 03-23-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Not yet it doesn't.

Not even close. Pretty much only the Samsung BDP-1000 and Philips can't. All the rest have been firmware updated to support Dolby TrueHD.

DTS wrote the buggy software that causes the issue!

sorry, I meant to say that the PS3 SOON will have the ability to decode it.

Actually the sony S300 can't decode True HD either And just about every stinking blu ray player that's being announced can play dts-ma. Don't forget that several first gen models of DVD players couldn't play regular DTS at first either. took a bit, now it's shocking to have a dvd player made that couldn't do DTS.

last point I agree with. But it was only one decoder chip. Every company makes ooopses now and again.

Zaphod · 03-23-2008, 11:08 AM

Has anyone contacted Onkyo to see if this is a warrantable issue. I would imagine it would be since DTS confirmed the IC's were faulty.

Woody · 03-23-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Not yet it doesn't.

Not even close. Pretty much only the Samsung BDP-1000 and Philips can't. All the rest have been firmware updated to support Dolby TrueHD.

DTS wrote the buggy software that causes the issue!

Then why don't Denon receivers have the issue?

It is a decoder problem, not a SW problem.

darkpoet25 · 03-23-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

Has anyone contacted Onkyo to see if this is a warrantable issue. I would imagine it would be since DTS confirmed the IC's were faulty.

I hope so as I have an 805. But since the PS3 will do it internally as PCM, would the reciever still have the same problem?

03-23-2008, 06:07 AM	#1
jon s Active Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray reviews:3	DTS-HD MA bitstream decoder flaw can damage gear... I don't know if anyone has seen the thread in the Blu-Ray Players section of AVS forum here, but there is a BIG issue with DTS HD-MA with the Onkyo and Yamaha (some Pioneer users have posted the same problems) receivers. Apparently the DTS decoding IC supplied to Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha is defective causing loud popping sounds which can and has damaged some audio gear. The popping noise is NOT affected by the receiver's volume control and has caused blown speakers. Unless the issue is resolved, it is not recommended to use bitstreaming DTS-HD MA on Onkyos. "DTS Global Product manager Ronny Katz confirms that the problem is caused by a faulty DTS Decoder Chip (IC) in the Receivers of the companies of Onkyo and Yamaha. Recievers from Denon, Pioneer and Sony, which uses a different DTS Decoder Chip are unaffected and has no difficulties bit-streaming the DTS-HD MA tracks from the titles concerned. DTS has a made a fix/update to their Encoding software which will address the problem by taking the faulty DTS Decoder Chip into consideration, thus avoiding the issue on future Blu-Ray releases. It is however unknown at this time, if the Recievers with the faulty DTS Decoder chips can be fixed to work with the current DTS-MA discs by firmware update."

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03-23-2008, 06:12 AM	#2
yellowblanket Senior Member Member since:Oct 2007 Home Theater Gallery:9 Blu-ray collection:1 Trading Score:1	great...i'd be very upset if my speaker blown

03-23-2008, 06:17 AM	#3
Bobby Henderson Power Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Oklahoma Blu-ray collection:96 Blu-ray reviews: 12	I was leaning towards a Denon receiver for the SACD capability (my existing one is a 9 year old Yamaha RX-V995). This would do more to seal the deal.

03-23-2008, 06:20 AM	#4
mmdeleon2001 Member Member since:Mar 2008 Blu-ray reviews:1	hmmm weird!! every now n then we get this LOUD STATIC sound!! its crazy!! but we just turn it down when we hear it!! n press stop!! this usually happens when we open like a deleted scene or just the main menu but reloading it fixes everything!!

03-23-2008, 07:16 AM	#5
ManUtd Blu-ray Count Top contributor Member since:Feb 2008 Location:In my HT Home Theater Gallery:1 4K collection:15 Blu-ray collection:829 Blu-ray reviews: 5 Trading Score:5	Wow this is big. The DTS statement indicates that only Onkyo and Yamaha receivers are affected but that AVS thread claims that the Pioneer 91TXH is affected. I hope my 94TXH isn't affected. In any case, this sucks for all owners of the receivers pre/pro affected.

03-23-2008, 07:18 AM	#6
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	Part of the consequence of them rushing everything to market I'll wager. They started way too late and rushed it, still missing Dolby's rollout by a year DTS had better buy everyone a new reciever if it can't be fixed

03-23-2008, 07:19 AM	#7
Canada Blu-ray Archduke Top contributor Member since:Mar 2007 Location:Victoria, BC Home Theater Gallery:17 4K collection:305 Blu-ray collection:1201 DVD collection:37 Blu-ray reviews:42	What?

03-23-2008, 07:25 AM	#8
Ben123 Active Member Member since:Feb 2008 Blu-ray reviews:1	Do you have a link to this article?

03-23-2008, 07:40 AM	#9
quitemouse Active Member Member since:Mar 2008 Blu-ray reviews:7	I knew there was a reason I never liked Onkyo receivers.... (most recent bad experience was with the 805... had to return 4 of them...)

03-23-2008, 08:28 AM	#10
LynxFX Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jul 2007	Not saying that it won't or can't happen, but no equipment has yet been confirmed damaged from this. It just is a crap your pants sound that definitely needs resolved. I'm hoping that if/when the PS3 gets the DTS MA update that this won't be a problem since it will be decoding internally and sending out as PCM.

03-23-2008, 10:22 AM	#13
fitprod Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jul 2007 4K collection:1738 Blu-ray collection:5594 DVD collection:248 Digital collection:1962	I saw that note... I didn't realize it was a software run process. I'm used to stand alone equipment that usually has a chip. I have a PS3, but it's not my dedicated Blu-ray player. I'm limping along with the Samsung BDP-1000 until the Panasonic DMP-BD50 or Sony's new models come out. This is what we get when people rush ahead with things. You would think after screwing up on LD (Long delays) and DVD (Not ready at DVD launch to be included in Spec) DTS would have learned a lesson. fitprod

03-23-2008, 10:27 AM	#14
PeterTHX Banned Top contributor Member since:Sep 2006 Blu-ray collection:563 Trading Score:14	Stuff like this is what I was talking about in other threads. DTS was already so far behind in getting their solution out there they didn't properly bug test it. We need to pressure Fox to go Dolby TrueHD.

03-23-2008, 11:08 AM	#18
Zaphod Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2007 Location:A small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse. Blu-ray collection:350 Trading Score:4	Has anyone contacted Onkyo to see if this is a warrantable issue. I would imagine it would be since DTS confirmed the IC's were faulty.

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