What gives blu-ray 3d look?

[kraig1]

Does 120hz sets give the 3d effect from the blu-ray movies or something else? I notice this from the 120 hz tvs when at Best Buy(connected to Blu-Ray player). I dont like the smear of the picture, but the effect is good. I have a sharp 1080 60hz and dont get that effect, but I feel the detail is higher and the colors dont bleed as much.

[nhaase]

Yea, it's the 120Hz. Do a search in the forums, esp. the HDTV section, and you can read more on it.

[kraig1]

Thanks.

[dukenukem]

It's not 120hz on those tv's that does that,it's what they uised which is amp/motionflow that gives it that look.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

The 120Hz helps, but it also hinders. Like you said, it has the smear effect (which I also refer to as ghosting). It's the actual quality of the Blu-ray transfer that makes it 3D-esque. The sharpness of the image actually gives it a third dimension as the foreground and background images in a scene are much more distinguishable as that line that seperates a shoulder from the trees behind the actor has become increasingly smaller. The elimination of that line, in conjunction with focused foreground and slightly out of focus background, is the ultimate reason behind the 3D effect. This gives the screen image a depth of field that seems to extend beyond the 2 dimensional screen.

The 120Hz is able to further clarify the image, but I'm not a fan because of the ghosting effect. I'm very happy with 1080/24p or 60Hz image, so long as the video codec is blazing along at high transfer rates. It gives the same 3D effect without causing the visual echo/ghosting/smear.

EDIT: You might have to spend some time to make adjustments to your settings. Also, it's usually only the best of the best movies that they show on store demos (often animated films). Also, your TV contrast ratio probably has something to do with the difference between yours and the stores picture quality. If your contrast ratio is smaller, your colours won't maximize and your blacks will be exponentially more flat.

[elwaylite]

Do a little more research fellas, its not 120hz that gives it a 3d look.

CONTRAST RATIO's are the biggest factor.

Kuro 720p tv's have a great 3d look and do not even have the 120hz.

[kraig1]

I spent 2 hours of tweaking contrast and have decided (sharp aquos 46" 64 92, something like that) its not the contrast, just the resolve rate? (Sorry if thats the wrong term!). The effect I am talking about is clearly visible from close up to a good 20' back! I think its the 120 hz. If you have it with something else well O.K. I just want to wait till they can get that "video feel" from the look. Would be awesome with the theater look and the 3d look combined. Maybe there are sets that can do that now, just havent seen it. Im not to much of a tech head, just see what I see.

[elwaylite]

If its the 120hz processing, how do you explain the 3d look on plasmas? You cant.

Do some reading on AVS, I myself have asked it. Its not as much 1080p or processing as it is real world CR.

[kraig1]

Thanks for the feedback. I dont have any experiece "0" with plasma, so I'm sure very possible. Just makes me nuts trying to get the most out of my set and I keep looking closer and closer trying to see something thats just not there. But as I'm somewhat satisfied with my purchase, I always see something else that looks better and I want, just cant always afford!

[Entertainment72]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Do a little more research fellas, its not 120hz that gives it a 3d look.

CONTRAST RATIO's are the biggest factor.

Kuro 720p tv's have a great 3d look and do not even have the 120hz.

You are way off.. it is in fact the 120hz that does it. Motionflow = 120hz, Sony's terminology...it's been discussed countless times. Contrast doesn't do a damn thing on that 3d look.

Originally Posted by kraig1

I spent 2 hours of tweaking contrast and have decided (sharp aquos 46" 64 92, something like that) its not the contrast, just the resolve rate? (Sorry if thats the wrong term!). The effect I am talking about is clearly visible from close up to a good 20' back! I think its the 120 hz.

[Entertainment72]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

If its the 120hz processing, how do you explain the 3d look on plasmas? You cant.

Do some reading on AVS, I myself have asked it. Its not as much 1080p or processing as it is real world CR.

My parents Panny Plasma 50" is an amazing TV, superb picture but no matter how much tinkering with it, it does not produce that effect like my Sony Motionflow A3000 does. Same movie same PS3 player etc etc so no if you think you are watching it on a plasma you are fooling yourself.

I've done my share of research and it is really quite simple. Tell a Best Buy employee to turn off the 120hz on either Sony XBR or Samsung promotional display and VIOLA!

[john_1958]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

If its the 120hz processing, how do you explain the 3d look on plasmas? You cant.

Do some reading on AVS, I myself have asked it. Its not as much 1080p or processing as it is real world CR.

alot of plasmas i find are soft in look especially panasonic

to me colours should be rich, any jewelry a person is wearing should sparkle and stand out from everything, just don't see it when i check out plasmas

I find turn down the brightness and always use dynamic contrast

[Chevypower]

I have mentioned color burst subcarrier signals before relative to the NTSC and PAL signals which are 3.58Mhz and 4.43Mhz respectively. They seriously limit the color saturation and the hue on NTSC signals goes seriously out of whack (between phases), so notoriously, it is often said to stand for Never The Same Color. HD signals are not limited by these colorburst subcarrier signals.

[elwaylite]

Talk to Dnice on AVS(very knowledgeable insider) and he'll explain the 3d look for you. Motion flow does give a certain look, but the 3d look you guys are talking about is also CR related. Anyways, to each his own. Sounds like we have a few guys here that are pro lcd.

[nhaase]

To say it was just the 120Hz was an oversimplification on my part. I've discussed this other times, so that's why I just said to do a search. It is a combination of factors. Contrast ratio is a factor, as when I went from my JVC projection TV to a new 1080p Kuro the depth on the new one is far superior, and even dvds, such as Jim Gaffigan's "Beyond the Pale" has great depth when the camera pans around the theater. The first thing a friend noticed when I got the TV was the increase in picture depth.

The Kuro displays 24Hz signals at 72Hz, repeating each frame three times. This gives a smooth look, but it's not 3D like what you see at Best Buy. The Sonys that do 120Hz interpolate the frames. Instead of repeating each frame five times, the set looks at the difference in the two frames and tries to guess where a moving object will be in between the frames, and fills in those extra four frames with those guesses, to keep it simple. This interpolation feature has been deemed "motionflow" by sony. Here is one explanation of it: http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldi...r4/index1.html

I was in the magnolia section at best buy once and in the listening room they had a kuro elite and a sony bravia. They both looked great and smooth, but the picture on the sony looked almost like a cheesy theme park ride w/ 3D glasses. As another poster on here has said, when I turned off the 120Hz Motionflow, that look went away. So a lot of it is not just 120Hz, but also how the TV works with it.

The quality of the picture on blu-ray also plays a role.

[elwaylite]

Heres you one example from a sony proj description. Do enough research and youll find CR is VERY important to 3d looks.

If you think only 120hz tv's have the 3d look, you should do a little more reading.


http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/ser...ductId=1004354

Digital Contrast Enhancer circuit: Improves Contrast by enhancing all areas from dark to bright in parallel with texture control providing a three dimensional picture.

Hmmm, enhancing contrast helps the 3d picture. Im not arguing that motionflow isnt nice, but you guys cant go around thinking it makes something appear 3d, theres a lot more to it.

[kraig1]

Can plasmas accomplish this? I have not seen it. Doesnt meen its not possible, just not saw this on any yet. If they can, can they produce a more film look?, I think that video look is wierd. I ask this with no intention on trying to argue plasma vs lcd, its just that I have only noticed this look with the lcds. When forumers have said a picture window effect from said movie, is the typical set a 120 hz lcd tv? Like I said, I like the picure Quality that I get, just never completely satisfied when there may be more performance under the hood of my set.

[U4K61]

Originally Posted by Chevypower

I have mentioned color burst subcarrier signals before relative to the NTSC and PAL signals which are 3.58Mhz and 4.43Mhz respectively. They seriously limit the color saturation and the hue on NTSC signals goes seriously out of whack (between phases), so notoriously, it is often said to stand for Never The Same Color. HD signals are not limited by these colorburst subcarrier signals.

I thought NTSC stood for Never Twice the Same Color, something Joe Kane likes to point out. The problem was not the system (though it has serious limitations as you say), but rather broadcasters and set makers not following the rules set out by NTSC standards. One example being sets set to torch mode or vivid to compeate with brightly lit showroom floors. But how brightly lit was the sales floor? Your guess is as good as mine. So we have different sets delivering a different picture using the same video signal!

[JJ]

Originally Posted by kraig1

Can plasmas accomplish this? I have not seen it. Doesnt meen its not possible, just not saw this on any yet. If they can, can they produce a more film look?, I think that video look is wierd. I ask this with no intention on trying to argue plasma vs lcd, its just that I have only noticed this look with the lcds. When forumers have said a picture window effect from said movie, is the typical set a 120 hz lcd tv? Like I said, I like the picure Quality that I get, just never completely satisfied when there may be more performance under the hood of my set.

Some Pioneer models do 72 Hz processing. Not 120 Hz like the Sony, but a step up from the 60 that most of us are used to.

[kraig1]

nhaase: When the motion flow was turned off the effect went away( just paraphrasing). So is it that the motion flow possibly causes this? I know I dont care for the picture, but the look is definately cool with the right picture quality.