Playstation 3 for 104% 25fps Blu-ray playback petition : Please sign!!!

[nicktherockstar]

http://www.petitiononline.com/blu25/petition.html


If you agree with what's below, or just want to help out those of us that do, please sign the petition

a huge thanks!

To the non-informed...

In Europe DVDs were always 25fps. Because TV's run at 50Hz this was perfect because each frame could be shown twice and the picture would be perfectly smooth.

Unfortunately,we now have a standard of showing things in the original 24fps. This causes the judder or jittery image we now see on pan shots with blu-ray on many set-ups now, because the 24 does not fit into 50 or 60 very well at all.

So I ask Sony to add an option to the PS3 (Playstation 3) to speed up Blu-ray playback to 104% so it runs at a smooth 25fps, resulting in a smoother picture for films for those that want it

I for one never noticed DVDs are running slightly faster than nature intended and dont see why we should be forced to watch blu-ray films with judder without paying for a really expensive tv, and even then it might not play well!!!

so please Sony, give us smooth HD films! I know some say it can be minimized with fine tuning but its not good enough for those of use used to 25fps perfectness!

[dk3dknight]

Wouldn't those comments better pressed on SCEE- Sony Computer Entertainment of Europe.

Who could create the pressure to get the changes you need for your region.

If I get this right are you using a Pal tv and want blu-ray to run a little faster in fps to make up for the Pal, right or am I just a right field wack job?

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Wouldn't you need to place your request to the Hollywood studios, since they film at 24fps. It doesn't change anything if fps changes at any other point down the chain (except having TVs that can handle multiples of 24). It still will not help you. Aren't there HDTVs coming out in Europe that can handle multiples of 24 AND 25?

[dk3dknight]

What he is talking about is a option to allow the ps3 to speed up the playback a extra frame per second, not actually the studios presenting the material different.

[richieb1971]

Globally HDTV is a standard. My TV is 100hz for PAL and 120hz for 24/60 sources. Its only SDTV's that require a speed up.

I am not even sure if Blu-ray movies can be played in SD because I have not tried.


I think what the OP is saying is that telecine judder is more common on 24/60 sources, which PAL users hadn't seen in the past. This is because as you say, movie content runs at 24 frames, PAL is 50hz/2 interlaced passes = 25fps. What PAL pressing plants did was speed up the film and sound so 25 frames would pass each second. This would affect run times of movies, as the PAL version would end up being 3 minutes shorter (on average) and the audio would be ever so slightly higher pitched. It also, as the OP is saying, eliminates telecine judder slightly.

[dk3dknight]

I played blu-ray movies on a 10 inch sd tv, so yes its possible.

What happens is the player down converts the signal down to
480i, or magical fairy's not sure yet.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by dk3dknight

What he is talking about is a option to allow the ps3 to speed up the playback a extra frame per second, not actually the studios presenting the material different.

I know. I'm saying that it has to be added somewhere down the line, right (the TV)? If your TV does 100Hz, 24Hz material has to end up playing at 100Hz (or fps) somehow, right? That would mean the TV would have to add the extra frame to make it 25 and then use multiples of 25 to reach 100, right? Let me know if I'm off base here (and why).

[Siberian29]

Doesn't the PS3 support a 50hz output?

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by richieb1971

Globally HDTV is a standard. My TV is 100hz for PAL and 120hz for 24/60 sources. Its only SDTV's that require a speed up.

I am not even sure if Blu-ray movies can be played in SD because I have not tried.


I think what the OP is saying is that telecine judder is more common on 24/60 sources, which PAL users hadn't seen in the past. This is because as you say, movie content runs at 24 frames, PAL is 50hz/2 interlaced passes = 25fps. What PAL pressing plants did was speed up the film and sound so 25 frames would pass each second. This would affect run times of movies, as the PAL version would end up being 3 minutes shorter (on average) and the audio would be ever so slightly higher pitched. It also, as the OP is saying, eliminates telecine judder slightly.

That's what I'm talking about. I'm not that great with the terminology in the film world, but that's what I was trying to say.

[Siberian29]

I would read over this
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=987973
It seems like PAL PS3's can do a 50hz output.

[richieb1971]

Its not a point of PS3 out putting 50 or 60 hz.

The problem lies with all HD content on Blu-ray being mastered the same way for every region. If you downconvert that material in the USA it goes into the same 3:2 process that DVD's did.

However, in PAL markets DVD's were pressed at 50hz, not 60hz and ran completely different from their USA counterparts. This is where the problem lies. The conversion to 576i from 1080p is crippling playback and causing telecine judder.

By taking the 1080p/24 data and speeding it up 4% you will get the same effect as playing a UK PAL DVD, slightly faster, less telecine judder, shorter running times and slightly higher pitched audio (that less than 1% of the populace can detect).

[nicktherockstar]

Indeed

Cheers to the people that "got" me, sorry to those that didnt

Yes, to make it simpler to those less technically minded, and sorry if this is patronising...

Films run at 24fps so thats 24 still pictures flashing up on screen to give the impression of motion.

Tv's run in hz but this is just the same idea, the tv can operate normally showing 50hz or 60hz or 100hz on more expensive models. MOST tvs though will only support 50hz or 60hz. All this means is what you see on the screen, for instance playing a game is made up of an image that is "refreshing" 60 times a second.

In europe with dvd, the films were slightly sped up, to 25 fps. This means it fits nicely into a 50hz as it shows each frame twice because 25 goes into 50.

with 24fps HD content, the problem we have is each frame is displayed twice as with 25fps, however we have only seen 48 frames, and the tv needs 50, so we need to repeat some.

this is what causes the jerking effect.

In the US, you might be used to this and just overlook it, I cant say as I have never seen this problem until we had the international standard of 24fps forced onto us.

The speed up fixes this problem completely. The audio pitch is not noticeable at all. And as a music / audio know it all, I can tell you its easy to correct the pitch in real time as the film is playing anyway in software, with the power of the PS3, this would be a breeze if they brought it in.

Yes things can be played with further up the chain, you can ask the playstation to do the frame compensation, or have it knock out 24fps and have the tv do the compensation and see which gives the better result. Neither is perfect, not like a PAL DVD at 25fps.

As said, I could email SCEE, but I don't think for a second they would take notice, I was hoping to get something going, get interest... educate people that there is a better way of doing it and then go to Sony.

[Manmangler]

Buy TV that supports 24p

I don't want speedup to 104%. It is annyoing in music DVD's . I buyed TV that support 24p.

[Maximus]

Err, for BD the PS3 doesn't need 25p support, all HDTVs have dual mode in the EU, they support 50Hz as well as 60Hz. New ones will do 100Hz for SD material DVD, Freeview and 120Hz for HD content like Blu-ray or Sky HD.

It already supports DVD at 50i, it wouldn't get certification as a PAL DVD player if it didn't...

[nicktherockstar]

most tvs that support 24p don't

all it means you can input 24p into it and it will use "pull down" to convert it to 50/60hz

it only recognises the signal, it does not actually display it at 24hz. The only ones that do are the 120hz sets, which work as a multiplier of 24. these are not commonly and cheaply available.

I am not suggesting this to be forced on people, just asking for the option in the settings menu. Then those that do want the speed up can watch Blu-ray in its smoothest possible form.

[nicktherockstar]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Err, for BD the PS3 doesn't need 25p support, all HDTVs have dual mode in the EU, they support 50Hz as well as 60Hz. New ones will do 100Hz for SD material DVD, Freeview and 120Hz for HD content like Blu-ray or Sky HD.

It already supports DVD at 50i, it wouldn't get certification as a PAL DVD player if it didn't...

24 does not go into 50 or 60 so it is not perfectly synced. 120hz would be nice but this is only on the upper end sets. Lets not be snobs about it and insist everyone has a £1500 tv, give people the option to experience BD the best way for them

what it somes down to, is does 24 multiply into the hz,

50 = no
60 = no
100 = no
120 = yes

if there was a 25fps speed option the people that CHOOSE to switch it on would mean they had the perfect picture on 50hz and 100hz

[richieb1971]

You have totally missed the point.

If the OP is using a SDTV he is not using a HDTV. If the BD disc he is running is mastered at 24p, it needs to be sped up to 25p for a better playback.

DVD's in the UK are already mastered at 25p as you rightly pointed out.

[richieb1971]

I signed the petition. 4 sigs isn't going to help much though.

To be honest, I don't think an option should be added to the PS3. If your using composite or RGB output I believe it should be instated as a result. I don't think your average Joe is going to know what all this means, and probably wouldn't care.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by nicktherockstar

24 does not go into 50 or 60 so it is not perfectly synced. 120hz would be nice but this is only on the upper end sets. Lets not be snobs about it and insist everyone has a £1500 tv, give people the option to experience BD the best way for them

what it somes down to, is does 24 multiply into the hz,

50 = no
60 = no
100 = no
120 = yes

if there was a 25fps speed option the people that CHOOSE to switch it on would mean they had the perfect picture on 50hz and 100hz

You get used to 60p judder, and while that happens save up for a new 120Hz TV...

104% speedup is a less than optimal situation as it is not in the BD spec and would be unique to the PS3, that means some buyers would avoid standalone players for yet another reason (as if there aren't enough already).

[Porky Pine]

Ask these people how well internet petitions work.

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