Using vintage speakers? read this... - Blu-ray Forum

jon s · 06-25-2008, 11:08 PM

Many people are using vintage speakers. what they don't know is that as the speakers age, the crossovers changes characteristics. the capacitors changes values which then alters the crossover point which then alters the overall sound. it may also force the drivers to work in a frequency range that it was not designed for. How old do speakers need to be before the crossovers fail to meet spec? Maybe 10-20 years, depending on the quality.

Some companies (like KEF) specifies tolerances as low as 1%. Some generic (as well as name brands) uses caps with a 20% tolerance range. Simple two- or three-way crossovers are usually easy to upgrade. Using higher grade components can make a startling difference in the sound quality.

As an example, I recently obtained a pair of Polk Monitor 10B speakers for $50. They were in decent condition but the sound left a bit to be desired. I replaced the crossover components with some Jantzens for about $100. After breaking in the crossover (40-100 hours), the sound had a lot better focus, the bass was tighter, and the image had better depth.

Now, the Jantzens are not expensive parts... some brands (Sonicaps, Auricaps) can get pretty expensive, running several hundred dollars total. You do not need to spend exorbitant amounts, but you shud realize that some brands do make a difference in the sound. Either way, all of these brands are a lot better than the generic caps that most manufacturers use. In any case, upgrading the caps on the speakers made a big difference and I would recommend anyone to do so on vintage speakers...

kingofgrills · 06-25-2008, 11:24 PM

Good info and reminder for all. Do you know of a good online source for quality crossover components? I typically source stuff at Madisound or Parts Express.

fronn · 06-26-2008, 02:24 AM

Solen, Dayton and ClarityCap are three more reasonably priced brands (Clarity is a realistic high end)... Generally on capacitor values you'd want to stay within 5% (preferably exact -- shouldn't be difficult, especially if you've got room to bypass). The higher the vdc, within reason, the better... I don't think you'd want to go below 250 vdc (400 is pretty safe).

Replacing the inductors is a bit harder, as you should try to match the inductance and dc resistance (within 5%). Air core or copper foil, preferably.

jon s · 06-27-2008, 04:01 AM

solens have some drawbacks. when used in the high frequency circuit, they add a bit of harshness to the sound. i understand Sonicaps from sonic craft is very well regarded in a couple of cap shootouts. they can get expensive but are still considered to be in the midrange as pricing goes. Jantzen's superior series also were well regarded, they are available from Parts Express.

prerich · 06-27-2008, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingofgrills

Good info and reminder for all. Do you know of a good online source for quality crossover components? I typically source stuff at Madisound or Parts Express.

+1 That's where I get mine from

! I'm a vintage person and what the OP stated is true...you must keep your crossovers within the original tolerances.

Psychonaut · 06-27-2008, 12:22 PM

I am looking at doing this in the next few weeks with a pair of Sansui SP-2000's. I had thought about replacing the drivers themselves but I'm going to have them recapped and possibly the woofers refoamed and see what that does.

jon s · 07-08-2008, 03:19 PM

Well, after reading many comments on how great Sonicaps are, I decided to experiment and doled out $200 for the Sonicaps for my Polk Model 10B speakers. There are only six caps total for the two speakers, so you can see that the price is not cheap.

All I can say is WOW!!! The Sonicaps are amazing. The detail and atmosphere added to the sound is remarkable. Depth is greatly improved, the high end smoothed out with better extension and openness.

The Sonicaps impressed me so much, I have decided to upgrade another pair of Polk speakers, the RTA-12C. The RTA-12C however is a much more complex crossover, having a whopping 18 caps for the pair of speakers. The total cost for the caps is not small, a whopping $500 and is a serious investment. We shall see how it improves the sound of the speakers... stay tuned.

06-25-2008, 11:08 PM	#1
jon s Active Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray reviews:3	Using vintage speakers? read this... Many people are using vintage speakers. what they don't know is that as the speakers age, the crossovers changes characteristics. the capacitors changes values which then alters the crossover point which then alters the overall sound. it may also force the drivers to work in a frequency range that it was not designed for. How old do speakers need to be before the crossovers fail to meet spec? Maybe 10-20 years, depending on the quality. Some companies (like KEF) specifies tolerances as low as 1%. Some generic (as well as name brands) uses caps with a 20% tolerance range. Simple two- or three-way crossovers are usually easy to upgrade. Using higher grade components can make a startling difference in the sound quality. As an example, I recently obtained a pair of Polk Monitor 10B speakers for $50. They were in decent condition but the sound left a bit to be desired. I replaced the crossover components with some Jantzens for about $100. After breaking in the crossover (40-100 hours), the sound had a lot better focus, the bass was tighter, and the image had better depth. Now, the Jantzens are not expensive parts... some brands (Sonicaps, Auricaps) can get pretty expensive, running several hundred dollars total. You do not need to spend exorbitant amounts, but you shud realize that some brands do make a difference in the sound. Either way, all of these brands are a lot better than the generic caps that most manufacturers use. In any case, upgrading the caps on the speakers made a big difference and I would recommend anyone to do so on vintage speakers...

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06-25-2008, 11:24 PM	#2
kingofgrills Blu-ray Guru Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Dec 2007 Location:PDX Home Theater Gallery:31 4K collection:5 Blu-ray collection:81 Trading Score:31	Good info and reminder for all. Do you know of a good online source for quality crossover components? I typically source stuff at Madisound or Parts Express.

06-26-2008, 02:24 AM	#3
fronn Expert Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:St. Paul, Minnesota Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:- Blu-ray reviews:1	Solen, Dayton and ClarityCap are three more reasonably priced brands (Clarity is a realistic high end)... Generally on capacitor values you'd want to stay within 5% (preferably exact -- shouldn't be difficult, especially if you've got room to bypass). The higher the vdc, within reason, the better... I don't think you'd want to go below 250 vdc (400 is pretty safe). Replacing the inductors is a bit harder, as you should try to match the inductance and dc resistance (within 5%). Air core or copper foil, preferably.

06-27-2008, 04:01 AM	#4
jon s Active Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray reviews:3	solens have some drawbacks. when used in the high frequency circuit, they add a bit of harshness to the sound. i understand Sonicaps from sonic craft is very well regarded in a couple of cap shootouts. they can get expensive but are still considered to be in the midrange as pricing goes. Jantzen's superior series also were well regarded, they are available from Parts Express.

06-27-2008, 12:22 PM	#6
Psychonaut Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2008 Location:Second left after Wal-Mart Blu-ray collection:111	I am looking at doing this in the next few weeks with a pair of Sansui SP-2000's. I had thought about replacing the drivers themselves but I'm going to have them recapped and possibly the woofers refoamed and see what that does.

07-08-2008, 03:19 PM	#7
jon s Active Member Member since:May 2007 Blu-ray reviews:3	Well, after reading many comments on how great Sonicaps are, I decided to experiment and doled out $200 for the Sonicaps for my Polk Model 10B speakers. There are only six caps total for the two speakers, so you can see that the price is not cheap. All I can say is WOW!!! The Sonicaps are amazing. The detail and atmosphere added to the sound is remarkable. Depth is greatly improved, the high end smoothed out with better extension and openness. The Sonicaps impressed me so much, I have decided to upgrade another pair of Polk speakers, the RTA-12C. The RTA-12C however is a much more complex crossover, having a whopping 18 caps for the pair of speakers. The total cost for the caps is not small, a whopping $500 and is a serious investment. We shall see how it improves the sound of the speakers... stay tuned.

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