Pioneer puts new PDP factory on hold - Blu-ray Forum

HDTV1080P · 01-31-2007, 07:18 PM

Link to story, Pioneer Plasma displays are selling poorly. Some other companies are also having problems selling Plasma displays since LCD’s are general lower price. Pioneer currently makes the cheapest 1080P Plasma's. Runco wants $20,000 for their 1080P Plasma.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/...C-TB2007-01-31

Pioneer makes very good quality consumer electronics. In general most models are reliable and last a long time. I still have a Laserdisc and DVD player that is working perfectly. The Laserdisc player is over 10 years old and plays every single Laserdisc with no compatibility problems. Also the DVD player plays every single DVD I own and rent where other brands once in a while would have problems on some titles. During the Christmas season of 2006 the Pioneer PRO-FHD1 50 inch Plasma screen was the best quality Plasma screen every made. It was the world’s first 1080P Plasma monitor that also supported 1080P/24 input with a 72HZ refresh rate.
Plasma displays like the PRO-FHD1 have beautiful colors with excellent 10:000:1 contrast ratios. For watching movies Plasma’s run circles around the best LCD’s. It is a shame that Plasma sales are hurting. One wonders if one day LCD screens will replace Plasma displays. Until the LCD screen technology improves to the quality of Plasma displays the high end market will still want to purchase Plasma screens.
I was strongly considering purchasing the Pioneer Plasma and may still purchase one some day. The only problem with Plasma displays is that you can not play video games or leave CNN or FOX TV channel on the screen all day long or you risk burn in problems of network logos. The burn in issue is also noted in the manual of the Pioneer display. For someone that watches BLU-RAY movies 90% of the time this is the perfect super thin wall mountable display to own with a outstanding picture quality.

The Pioneer PRO-FHD1 sales for $8,000. For only around $5,200 as a final delivered price one can purchase this awesome Plasma over the Internet.

http://www.calibex.com/Pioneer-PRO-F...b2/prices-html

Specs
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...tailsComponent

Maximus · 01-31-2007, 07:21 PM

Could it be, Pioneer, stepping back from Plasma to put out LCD, I would be first in line for a Pioneer LCD TV!

HDTV1080P · 01-31-2007, 07:32 PM

I would love to see an Elite rear projector using LCOS or an Elite LCD screen. If it was not for the burn in issue I would be all over Plasma as a great bedroom set to place on the wall. Pioneer is planning on releasing a new 1080P Elite Plasma monitor this year that has an awesome minimum 20,000:1 contrast ratio. Pioneer test equipment was not able to test contrast ratio’s higher then 20,000:1. Possible this new Plasma coming might have much better contrast ratio then 20,000:1 once better test equipment is made available.

frankc4s · 01-31-2007, 08:14 PM

I have 2 Pioneer plasmas hanging on walls at home

PDP-504HDE 50" 4th Generation Pioneer plasma and the PDP-436XDE, which I bought last August and blows the 50" away.

The plan was to sell the 4th Gen 50" and go for the 50" 1080p elite model.
I had sorted out a "buy now pay 12 months later" deal at £5000, but am now having second thoughts.

A freind has the 46" Sony X series juiced up to an import PS3, he was playing Kingdom of Heaven and the PQ was staggering!!
After the demo he told me he only payed £2500, thats half the price of the Pioneer Elite in the UK.

This news that Pioneer are having trouble shifting Plasma,s does not surprise me, £5000 is a fair bit of money to sink into a screen!

To be completely honest, I have the 50" hooked up to an Xbox360 and SkyHD and after heavy use when images are static on the screen for extended periods,burn is noticable. However once I watch a picture that is being refreshed ie a movie for example, the burn images are completely gone.

I have also seen "iffy" brands of plasma that look rubbish in comparison after similar usage,albeit the cost around the £1000 mark.

Open to suggestions on the next screen purchase chaps????

Cheers

FC

Maximus · 01-31-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankc4s

I have 2 Pioneer plasmas hanging on walls at home

PDP-504HDE 50" 4th Generation Pioneer plasma and the PDP-436XDE, which I bought last August and blows the 50" away.

The plan was to sell the 4th Gen 50" and go for the 50" 1080p elite model.
I had sorted out a "buy now pay 12 months later" deal at £5000, but am now having second thoughts.

A freind has the 46" Sony X series juiced up to an import PS3, he was playing Kingdom of Heaven and the PQ was staggering!!
After the demo he told me he only payed £2500, thats half the price of the Pioneer Elite in the UK.

This news that Pioneer are having trouble shifting Plasma,s does not surprise me, £5000 is a fair bit of money to sink into a screen!

To be completely honest, I have the 50" hooked up to an Xbox360 and SkyHD and after heavy use when images are static on the screen for extended periods,burn is noticable. However once I watch a picture that is being refreshed ie a movie for example, the burn images are completely gone.

I have also seen "iffy" brands of plasma that look rubbish in comparison after similar usage,albeit the cost around the £1000 mark.

Open to suggestions on the next screen purchase chaps????

Cheers

FC

Get the 52" Sony Bravia X-series, it is awesome, two more inches and less money. Also on the X-series Sony has a very good returns policy regarding dead pixels, I had one in my 46" screen, a Sony truck came a week later and replaced it, though I did buy direct from the Sony Centre.

frankc4s · 01-31-2007, 08:26 PM

52"

Now if its available in black.........

Thanks for the heads up!

gvortex7 · 01-31-2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankc4s

52"

Now if its available in black.........

Thanks for the heads up!

It is available in the U.S. in black and is indeed a nice looking display, however don't fret when you see standard def pictures. Sony LCD's are notorious for having sub par standard def pictures. They're really only meant for high def viewing.

PeterTHX · 02-01-2007, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Sony LCD's are notorious for having sub par standard def pictures.

Not anymore. The X (XBR2 here) has the best SD scaling I've seen on a flat display. I've directly compared it to the best from Samsung, Sharp, Mits, plasmas, etc and it still had the best SD picture.

Blackraven · 02-01-2007, 01:05 PM

This is bad news for Pioneer PDP.

They need to put out that 8th gen line because at the moment, plasma sets have NASTY POWER CONSUMPTION.

50 inch = 400w

When I can get a 52 inch BRAVIA from Sony and still run 330w.

They need that 8th gen line out ASAP. Otherwise, plasma is dead.................

No saying that I'm pro-PLASMA. Heck, I'd rather pick LCD over this and heck, I would choose OLED TV over ALL of them. But to see Plasma TV tech sink at this early stage is something that even I wouldn't want to see.

I still want to see a 1080p Plasma TV set with HDMI 1.3 and power consumption that is BELOW the 300w mark (@ AC 100-240V 50/60hz).

Plasma TV tech still needs to be part of the competition. Pioneer has proven at CES 2007 that their black levels exceed that of what the prototype SED TV from Toshiba done a year ago.

Personally, if given an option between Plasma and SED, I'd rather pick Plasma instead (because the latter has Toshiba as primary backer and Toshiba sucks).

I do hope that Pioneer would get this production line operational within this year.

i want HD movies · 02-06-2007, 02:03 AM

Plasma sets simply do not have burn in issues like most of you think. I own a 50 Pro-1130 Pioneer Elite. I play lots of video games, and watch lots of tv, mainly espn. NO BURN IN!!!! some image retention once in a while but never permanent burn in. Just a few hours or days of watching somehting different and it is gone. Never had any problem from tv watching, everytime it goes to commercial the logo is gone and the area is 'wiped clean.' just turn your contrast and brightness down to a reasonable level. torch mode will kill your tv whatever technology it is!

As far as Plasmas being overpriced only the 1080P sets are. 720 plasma are the same, about, as a 720 LCD. 1080P plasma will come down once someone can compete with pioneer. until then pioneer has no reason to compete with itself by dropping prices.

LCD makers, Sony and Sharp, also send people into stores (yes mine included) who spread bad information regarding plasma!! No they are not Sony employees, but they regularly say false info in hopes of making a commission within my store. I dont exactly see Sony telling them not to.

Lastly, HDMI 1.3 in a TV? Could someone explain to me why one would need or want HDMI 1.3 in a tv since the only advantage is being able to send SACD? Last time i checked i dont do much sacd listening on my plasma.

Check out the CES info currently out there regarding Pioneer's new plasma sets. This is why production has been slowed down. They are revamping all of their sets to include this new technology. The black levels and colors are beyond anything seen to date. In fact the black levels were so black that you could not tell here he black bezel started when the tv was on!! Or at least that is what many reports are saying.

HDTV1080P · 02-06-2007, 02:24 AM

HDMI 1.3 does more then support higher quality audio streams. Bandwidth is increased to 10.2 GB. Support for 30, 36, and 48 bit color depths with several billions of shades of color compared to 16.7 million today’s sets have. Also has improved lip sync for audio with better specifications for compatibility between two devices.
Here is a picture of a front projector in Japan that uses 48-bit color depth with a HDMI 1.3 connector.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/11/e...with-hdmi-1-3/

Blackraven · 02-06-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

HDMI 1.3 does more then support higher quality audio streams. Bandwidth is increased to 10.2 GB. Support for 30, 36, and 48 bit color depths with several billions of shades of color compared to 16.7 million today’s sets have. Also has improved lip sync for audio with better specifications for compatibility between two devices.
Here is a picture of a front projector in Japan that uses 48-bit color depth with a HDMI 1.3 connector.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/11/e...with-hdmi-1-3/

Yup I agree with what he says above.

Plus the fact the presence of deep color option for the PS3 (via HDMI 1.3) is something that I want as well.

i want HD movies · 02-07-2007, 04:17 AM

I did not realize that. Thank you for the info HDTV.

I thought most TV sets were limited to around 16 bit color decoders? Wouldnt this limit the usefulness of these higher bit rates or is this something different?

HDTV1080P · 02-07-2007, 08:08 PM

New displays are being designed in the lab to take advantage of 48 bit decoders. In late 2007 and 2008 hopefully we will see some of these new products in the US.

01-31-2007, 07:18 PM	#1
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Pioneer puts new PDP factory on hold Link to story, Pioneer Plasma displays are selling poorly. Some other companies are also having problems selling Plasma displays since LCD’s are general lower price. Pioneer currently makes the cheapest 1080P Plasma's. Runco wants $20,000 for their 1080P Plasma. http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/...C-TB2007-01-31 Pioneer makes very good quality consumer electronics. In general most models are reliable and last a long time. I still have a Laserdisc and DVD player that is working perfectly. The Laserdisc player is over 10 years old and plays every single Laserdisc with no compatibility problems. Also the DVD player plays every single DVD I own and rent where other brands once in a while would have problems on some titles. During the Christmas season of 2006 the Pioneer PRO-FHD1 50 inch Plasma screen was the best quality Plasma screen every made. It was the world’s first 1080P Plasma monitor that also supported 1080P/24 input with a 72HZ refresh rate. Plasma displays like the PRO-FHD1 have beautiful colors with excellent 10:000:1 contrast ratios. For watching movies Plasma’s run circles around the best LCD’s. It is a shame that Plasma sales are hurting. One wonders if one day LCD screens will replace Plasma displays. Until the LCD screen technology improves to the quality of Plasma displays the high end market will still want to purchase Plasma screens. I was strongly considering purchasing the Pioneer Plasma and may still purchase one some day. The only problem with Plasma displays is that you can not play video games or leave CNN or FOX TV channel on the screen all day long or you risk burn in problems of network logos. The burn in issue is also noted in the manual of the Pioneer display. For someone that watches BLU-RAY movies 90% of the time this is the perfect super thin wall mountable display to own with a outstanding picture quality. The Pioneer PRO-FHD1 sales for $8,000. For only around $5,200 as a final delivered price one can purchase this awesome Plasma over the Internet. http://www.calibex.com/Pioneer-PRO-F...b2/prices-html Specs http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...tailsComponent

01-31-2007, 07:32 PM	#3
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	New Pionner Plasam coming this year I would love to see an Elite rear projector using LCOS or an Elite LCD screen. If it was not for the burn in issue I would be all over Plasma as a great bedroom set to place on the wall. Pioneer is planning on releasing a new 1080P Elite Plasma monitor this year that has an awesome minimum 20,000:1 contrast ratio. Pioneer test equipment was not able to test contrast ratio’s higher then 20,000:1. Possible this new Plasma coming might have much better contrast ratio then 20,000:1 once better test equipment is made available.

02-01-2007, 01:05 PM	#9
Blackraven Expert Member Member since:Jan 2005 Location:Makati, Philippines	This is bad news for Pioneer PDP. They need to put out that 8th gen line because at the moment, plasma sets have NASTY POWER CONSUMPTION. 50 inch = 400w When I can get a 52 inch BRAVIA from Sony and still run 330w. They need that 8th gen line out ASAP. Otherwise, plasma is dead................. No saying that I'm pro-PLASMA. Heck, I'd rather pick LCD over this and heck, I would choose OLED TV over ALL of them. But to see Plasma TV tech sink at this early stage is something that even I wouldn't want to see. I still want to see a 1080p Plasma TV set with HDMI 1.3 and power consumption that is BELOW the 300w mark (@ AC 100-240V 50/60hz). Plasma TV tech still needs to be part of the competition. Pioneer has proven at CES 2007 that their black levels exceed that of what the prototype SED TV from Toshiba done a year ago. Personally, if given an option between Plasma and SED, I'd rather pick Plasma instead (because the latter has Toshiba as primary backer and Toshiba sucks). I do hope that Pioneer would get this production line operational within this year. Last edited by Blackraven; 02-01-2007 at 01:15 PM.

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01-31-2007, 07:21 PM	#2
Maximus Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Nov 2006	Could it be, Pioneer, stepping back from Plasma to put out LCD, I would be first in line for a Pioneer LCD TV!

01-31-2007, 08:14 PM	#4
frankc4s Active Member Member since:Nov 2006 Location:uk	I have 2 Pioneer plasmas hanging on walls at home PDP-504HDE 50" 4th Generation Pioneer plasma and the PDP-436XDE, which I bought last August and blows the 50" away. The plan was to sell the 4th Gen 50" and go for the 50" 1080p elite model. I had sorted out a "buy now pay 12 months later" deal at £5000, but am now having second thoughts. A freind has the 46" Sony X series juiced up to an import PS3, he was playing Kingdom of Heaven and the PQ was staggering!! After the demo he told me he only payed £2500, thats half the price of the Pioneer Elite in the UK. This news that Pioneer are having trouble shifting Plasma,s does not surprise me, £5000 is a fair bit of money to sink into a screen! To be completely honest, I have the 50" hooked up to an Xbox360 and SkyHD and after heavy use when images are static on the screen for extended periods,burn is noticable. However once I watch a picture that is being refreshed ie a movie for example, the burn images are completely gone. I have also seen "iffy" brands of plasma that look rubbish in comparison after similar usage,albeit the cost around the £1000 mark. Open to suggestions on the next screen purchase chaps???? Cheers FC

01-31-2007, 08:26 PM	#6
frankc4s Active Member Member since:Nov 2006 Location:uk	52" Now if its available in black......... Thanks for the heads up!

02-06-2007, 02:03 AM	#10
i want HD movies Member Member since:Dec 2006	Plasma sets simply do not have burn in issues like most of you think. I own a 50 Pro-1130 Pioneer Elite. I play lots of video games, and watch lots of tv, mainly espn. NO BURN IN!!!! some image retention once in a while but never permanent burn in. Just a few hours or days of watching somehting different and it is gone. Never had any problem from tv watching, everytime it goes to commercial the logo is gone and the area is 'wiped clean.' just turn your contrast and brightness down to a reasonable level. torch mode will kill your tv whatever technology it is! As far as Plasmas being overpriced only the 1080P sets are. 720 plasma are the same, about, as a 720 LCD. 1080P plasma will come down once someone can compete with pioneer. until then pioneer has no reason to compete with itself by dropping prices. LCD makers, Sony and Sharp, also send people into stores (yes mine included) who spread bad information regarding plasma!! No they are not Sony employees, but they regularly say false info in hopes of making a commission within my store. I dont exactly see Sony telling them not to. Lastly, HDMI 1.3 in a TV? Could someone explain to me why one would need or want HDMI 1.3 in a tv since the only advantage is being able to send SACD? Last time i checked i dont do much sacd listening on my plasma. Check out the CES info currently out there regarding Pioneer's new plasma sets. This is why production has been slowed down. They are revamping all of their sets to include this new technology. The black levels and colors are beyond anything seen to date. In fact the black levels were so black that you could not tell here he black bezel started when the tv was on!! Or at least that is what many reports are saying.

02-06-2007, 02:24 AM	#11
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	HDMI 1.3 does more then support higher quality audio streams. Bandwidth is increased to 10.2 GB. Support for 30, 36, and 48 bit color depths with several billions of shades of color compared to 16.7 million today’s sets have. Also has improved lip sync for audio with better specifications for compatibility between two devices. Here is a picture of a front projector in Japan that uses 48-bit color depth with a HDMI 1.3 connector. http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/11/e...with-hdmi-1-3/

02-07-2007, 04:17 AM	#13
i want HD movies Member Member since:Dec 2006	I did not realize that. Thank you for the info HDTV. I thought most TV sets were limited to around 16 bit color decoders? Wouldnt this limit the usefulness of these higher bit rates or is this something different?

02-07-2007, 08:08 PM	#14
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	New displays are being designed in the lab to take advantage of 48 bit decoders. In late 2007 and 2008 hopefully we will see some of these new products in the US.

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