LCD Refresh rate - Blu-ray Forum

jeevez · 11-03-2008, 06:26 PM

I've seen in several places how a "refresh rate" on an LCD is sort of a made up number and that response time is what matters because of the way LCD's handle changing the image. I have a friend who is dead set on not believeing the advantages of a higher refresh rate LCD because of this. I've tried to explain to him how it's important for things like Blu-rays because gets rid of the 3:2 pulldown. Unfortunately neither I nor him have a 120Hz TV to demo this sort of thing and have nowhere near the resources to be getting one (both in University, only one more year!!). I was wondering if anyone could give me a straight forward explanation on why this 120 Hz actually matters. If we were to go somewhere that had a demo setu pwith a 120Hz display playing a Blu-ray, would the difference be noticeable? I've looked at the "120Hz explained" thread a few times, but it's not really the answer I'm looking for. If anyone can give me a hand in coming up with a way to explain this to my strong-headed friend, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Teabaggins · 11-03-2008, 07:21 PM

120hz vs 60 hz doesn't come into play when viewing a bluray. there is no difference when viewing. the refresh rate is minutely noticeable when watching a fast action sequence on a HD cable channel

aramis109 · 11-03-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teabaggins

120hz vs 60 hz doesn't come into play when viewing a bluray. there is no difference when viewing. the refresh rate is minutely noticeable when watching a fast action sequence on a HD cable channel

There IS a difference when viewing blu-ray. As the OP talked about, it resolves 3:2 pulldown judder.

Don't talk out of turn if you don't know, please.

Back ON topic, most movies are made on film, which has a 24 frames per second speed. This is normally not an issue, but with LCD's, they have a 60hz base refresh rate- they refresh at 60x a second. This is hard-coded and can't be changed. 24 doesn't divide evenly into 60, and thus... your issue of 3:2 pulldown judder.

120hz tv's combat this by being evenly divisible by 24. Hence, if they're working properly, 3:2 pulldown is no longer an issue as each frame is shown the same # of times per second.

Will it be noticeable? Not to everyone. My wife doesn't really see it, but it drives me flippin' nuts sometimes. If you're going to be buying a new LCD anyway, there's no reason not to get 120hz. Add into this that sports and fast-motion CAN benefit from the super-quick refresh and there is the added benefit in HD via cable as well.

RubberDucky · 11-03-2008, 07:51 PM

I actually didnt like the 120 turned it off on my sony looks kinda fake or cartoon like

Teabaggins · 11-03-2008, 07:53 PM

no, you turned off "motion flow", the 120 hz is constant.

RubberDucky · 11-03-2008, 07:54 PM

yeah that was probably it

aramis109 · 11-03-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberDucky

I actually didnt like the 120 turned it off on my sony looks kinda fake or cartoon like

I swear, they should make this info show up in every LCD thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis109

*shakes fist*

The 120hz is the refresh rate. It can not be changed. It's static on the set. What CAN be changed is the Motionflow/Motionplus/whatever technology where it interpolates frames.

The benefit of 120hz is two-fold: First, it's supposed to help with fast-moving scenes like action and sports- it helps reduce blurring. Secondly, 24p sources SHOULD be able to be resolved without 3:2 pulldown (since 24 goes evenly into 120, there is no need for 3:2 trickery that can cause judder).

Soapbox, a flamboyant impromptu/nonofficial publich speech

Personally, if I were buying an LCD, I'd buy a 120hz just for the 3:2 pulldown issue alone, since it's something that I notice on my current set.

Please folks, if you're going to be buying an LCD tv, make sure you understand these terms. Or at least... don't mix someone else up on it.

Driver_King · 11-03-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberDucky

I actually didnt like the 120 turned it off on my sony looks kinda fake or cartoon like

When 120hz is on its highest setting, that happens. A lower setting is usually preferred.

aramis109 · 11-03-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver_King

When 120hz is on its highest setting, that happens. A lower setting is usually preferred.

YOU TOO?!?

120hz is not a SETTING. It's the refresh rate of the set. Motionflow, MotionPlus, etc is a SETTING.

Check out da sticky: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=33838

Teabaggins · 11-03-2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teabaggins

there is no difference when viewing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis109

There IS a difference when viewing blu-ray. As the OP talked about, it resolves 3:2 pulldown judder.

.....Will it be noticeable? Not to everyone. My wife doesn't really see it, but it drives me flippin' nuts sometimes. .

hmm, I haven't noticed any judder but now I might since you mentioned it. thanks for ruining my experience

aramis109 · 11-03-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teabaggins

hmm, I haven't noticed any judder but now I might since you mentioned it. thanks for ruining my experience

If you want to be happily ignorant, may I suggest not coming to this forum.

RubberDucky · 11-03-2008, 08:06 PM

Well I have a Sony 55" XBR8 for my Home theater and it looked cartoon like and I had to change some setting but the picture looks just as good on my Sharps with out 120hz and in Jan of 09 Sony is releasing a tv with 240hz but they might already have that out not sure

RubberDucky · 11-03-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis109

If you want to be happily ignorant, may I suggest not coming to this forum.

haha look at this guy forum police

aramis109 · 11-03-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberDucky

haha look at this guy forum police

It was a joke that obviously flew right over your ducky head.

Point being, there is a lot of information to be gleaned from this forum.

Driver_King · 11-03-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis109

YOU TOO?!?

120hz is not a SETTING. It's the refresh rate of the set. Motionflow, MotionPlus, etc is a SETTING.

Check out da sticky: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=33838

I know what 120hz is! What do you think I am?

I meant the setting for 120hz (low-high) on TV's (such as Motionflow and Motionplus). Time to

again!

aramis109 · 11-03-2008, 08:11 PM

Really not tense about it, though honestly I do hate it when people talk about turning down 120hz. Pet peeve I guess.

I'm actually west of Milwaukee in a little town, but I work in Milwaukee. Is it maybe Racine? That's pretty large (and a bit south of here, depending on your outlook).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver_King

I know what 120hz is! What do you think I am?

I meant the setting for 120hz (low-high) on TV's (such as Motionflow and Motionplus). Time to

again!

You had me all

. I was like... "surely not DK!"

Teabaggins · 11-03-2008, 08:14 PM

Blu-Benny · 11-03-2008, 08:15 PM

just curious, don't beat me to hard if i'm way off on this. when watching something like a football game in HD and it switches from say a shot of the stands back to the field you notice some "digitizing" of the picture, is this the refresh rate, or lack there of, at work??

Teabaggins · 11-03-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blu-Benny

just curious, don't beat me to hard if i'm way off on this. when watching something like a football game in HD and it switches from say a shot of the stands back to the field you notice some "digitizing" of the picture, is this the refresh rate, or lack there of, at work??

I think that is delay in the feed during a live game..but I have been wrong before...

Driver_King · 11-03-2008, 08:19 PM

I'm sorry I made you

. I just had to

when you were starting to

. I hope we don't have to

anymore.

11-03-2008, 06:26 PM	#1
jeevez Member Member since:Jul 2008 Blu-ray collection:195	LCD Refresh rate I've seen in several places how a "refresh rate" on an LCD is sort of a made up number and that response time is what matters because of the way LCD's handle changing the image. I have a friend who is dead set on not believeing the advantages of a higher refresh rate LCD because of this. I've tried to explain to him how it's important for things like Blu-rays because gets rid of the 3:2 pulldown. Unfortunately neither I nor him have a 120Hz TV to demo this sort of thing and have nowhere near the resources to be getting one (both in University, only one more year!!). I was wondering if anyone could give me a straight forward explanation on why this 120 Hz actually matters. If we were to go somewhere that had a demo setu pwith a 120Hz display playing a Blu-ray, would the difference be noticeable? I've looked at the "120Hz explained" thread a few times, but it's not really the answer I'm looking for. If anyone can give me a hand in coming up with a way to explain this to my strong-headed friend, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

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11-03-2008, 07:21 PM	#2
Teabaggins Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2008	120hz vs 60 hz doesn't come into play when viewing a bluray. there is no difference when viewing. the refresh rate is minutely noticeable when watching a fast action sequence on a HD cable channel

11-03-2008, 07:51 PM	#4
RubberDucky Active Member Member since:Oct 2008 Blu-ray collection:87 Blu-ray reviews:1	I actually didnt like the 120 turned it off on my sony looks kinda fake or cartoon like

11-03-2008, 07:53 PM	#5
Teabaggins Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2008	no, you turned off "motion flow", the 120 hz is constant.

11-03-2008, 07:54 PM	#6
RubberDucky Active Member Member since:Oct 2008 Blu-ray collection:87 Blu-ray reviews:1	yeah that was probably it

11-03-2008, 08:06 PM	#12
RubberDucky Active Member Member since:Oct 2008 Blu-ray collection:87 Blu-ray reviews:1	Well I have a Sony 55" XBR8 for my Home theater and it looked cartoon like and I had to change some setting but the picture looks just as good on my Sharps with out 120hz and in Jan of 09 Sony is releasing a tv with 240hz but they might already have that out not sure

11-03-2008, 08:14 PM	#17
Teabaggins Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2008

11-03-2008, 08:15 PM	#18
Blu-Benny Michael Bay's #1 Fan Top contributor Member since:Aug 2008 Location:Wisconsin Home Theater Gallery:39 Blu-ray collection:552 DVD collection:108 Trading Score:138	just curious, don't beat me to hard if i'm way off on this. when watching something like a football game in HD and it switches from say a shot of the stands back to the field you notice some "digitizing" of the picture, is this the refresh rate, or lack there of, at work??

11-03-2008, 08:19 PM	#20
Driver_King Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Tampa Bay, Florida Home Theater Gallery:96 Blu-ray collection:28 Trading Score:10	I'm sorry I made you . I just had to when you were starting to . I hope we don't have to anymore.

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