How much does firmware updates hurt BD adoption?

[Antny]

Just wondering, I know that it will not hurt the tech savvy person but for those that are electronically challanged I think it is an issue. DVD never required a firmware upgrade and BD should be set up for the masses. I know for a fact many people (even in my family) would never want to buy a disc and not be able to watch it because they need to update the firmware. This isn't a shot to BD (I love mine, and I know HD-DVD needed them too). I just wouldn't want anything to stop it's growth especially including the plug-and-play people around. I know you can set it up to upgrade itself via the internet but I still see a slew of people that "can't be bothered".

Opinions?

[P@t_Mtl]

Yes very likely they would not be bothered but they will also be left behind very quickly. We are now entering a new age of tech with upgrades will ne needed bot just on BD but on cell phones as the become more like mini computers for example. I see mostly the older costumers that might have some trouble with this, dont forget in another 5 years the 12-15 age group will be real serious costumers, used to tech gadgets and firmware updates. I think overall it will not hurt too much.

[kpkelley]

I think the average consumer isn't aware that their player needs to be updated. This may be slightly detrimental as it will result in more people trying to return a "defective" player or disc and ignorance masquerading around as negative word-of-mouth. Since most of these issues will be brought back to the B&M stores, we can only hope that they will be properly trained and aware of these updates so that consumer ignornance doesn't affect blu adoption. That is a roundabout way of saying that it may partially affect blu adoption. I know that my sister was concerned when she bought a player, which is why she bought the same one that I have so that I can update it for her.

[atomik kinder]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

I think the average consumer isn't aware that their player needs to be updated. This may be slightly detrimental as it will result in more people trying to return a "defective" player or disc and ignorance masquerading around as negative word-of-mouth. Since most of these issues will be brought back to the B&M stores, we can only hope that they will be properly trained and aware of these updates so that consumer ignornance doesn't affect blu adoption. That is a roundabout way of saying that it may partially affect blu adoption. I know that my sister was concerned when she bought a player, which is why she bought the same one that I have so that I can update it for her.

I highly doubt this since almost every disc you buy has an insert telling you make sure your players firmware is up to date. Even if they ignore all of those, they are bound to hit a disc that won't play and will make them realize they need to do this.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by atomik kinder

I highly doubt this since almost every disc you buy has an insert telling you make sure your players firmware is up to date. Even if they ignore all of those, they are bound to hit a disc that won't play and will make them realize they need to do this.

True. They may not like it...but they will be aware.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Are firmware updates even that much of a problem anymore? Now that the profile 2.0 discs with BD-Live are coming out, aren't pretty much all newer players set to play those discs? (Even if the players, themselves, don't fully utilize the Live features?).

As of a year or so ago (heck, even earlier this year) I would say it was a big problem. And I guess if someone goes out and buys an older player that's been sitting around for a while, then it could also be an issue.

But since the general spec for the discs has essentially been finalized, I don't see this being too much of an issue going forward.

[SpikesBluBlooded]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Are firmware updates even that much of a problem anymore? Now that the profile 2.0 discs with BD-Live are coming out, aren't pretty much all newer players set to play those discs? (Even if the players, themselves, don't fully utilize the Live features?).

As of a year or so ago (heck, even earlier this year) I would say it was a big problem. And I guess if someone goes out and buys an older player that's been sitting around for a while, then it could also be an issue.

But since the general spec for the discs has essentially been finalized, I don't see this being too much of an issue going forward.

You are quite correct. Profile 2.0 pretty much was supposed to bring an end to firmware updates being a regular necessity. This a normal process for early adopters (and I believe was the case for DVD as well, just not to this extent), and once profile 2.0 players are the norm, I think that this will be a thing of the past. Worst-case scenerio, it will be automatic through a (hopefully) wireless connection to your ISP. Time will tell!

[Mr. Cinema]

It hurts when issues like with the Bond movies comes up. Not every manufacturer is quick to add firmware updates like Sony and Panasonic. So if an average consumer has a LG or Samsung player, and they can't play their Bond discs, what do they do? The players technically have the latest firmware. Are they going to wait around for a new update, or just give up on BD?

[the_r]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Yes very likely they would not be bothered but they will also be left behind very quickly. We are now entering a new age of tech with upgrades will ne needed bot just on BD but on cell phones as the become more like mini computers for example. I see mostly the older costumers that might have some trouble with this, dont forget in another 5 years the 12-15 age group will be real serious costumers, used to tech gadgets and firmware updates. I think overall it will not hurt too much.

Tech skills/abilities and age don't have a very strong correlation. Just because you're old, doesn't mean you're gonna have struggles updating your firmware on your blu-ray player, and just because you're a 13 year old iPod/Facebook junkie doesn't mean you're gonna have the wits to figure out what's wrong with your copy of The Strangers and why it doesn't work on your Samsung player.

What do you mean by the 12-15 age group will be "serious" customers? I know kids these days have more and more disposable income, but I really don't see kids that age going out buying blu-ray players.

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Are firmware updates even that much of a problem anymore? Now that the profile 2.0 discs with BD-Live are coming out, aren't pretty much all newer players set to play those discs? (Even if the players, themselves, don't fully utilize the Live features?).

As of a year or so ago (heck, even earlier this year) I would say it was a big problem. And I guess if someone goes out and buys an older player that's been sitting around for a while, then it could also be an issue.

But since the general spec for the discs has essentially been finalized, I don't see this being too much of an issue going forward.

I've also lost track of where we are today with the firmware issues with movies and players. I too had a player a year ago (Sammy 1200), and I remember the first night I encountered these "firmware" issues, mostly because the nightmare is burnt into my memory. I felt betrayed as a consumer, that I had to perform some kind of "upgrade" to my player, myself, in order for it to do something it was solely designed to do in the first place. Is there no more separation between the world of consumer electronics and the world of computers? I spent 45 minutes rebooting and reloading the disc, all the while watching a status indicator on my TV screen, and the words "slideshow" scrolling across the main display on my Samsung player. I lost another 30 minutes online searching the Internet to try to figure out what the hell was the problem, before I found the "samsung bdp1200 issues" thread on AVS. I lost the entire night troubleshooting what the heck was going on, and my girlfriend was NOT impressed with my fancy new blu-ray technology.

So while all these "new players" are profile 2.0 compliant, what about all the people who bought their players back in 2007? Will they have to continue to install firmware upgrades in order to play back movies? When these players install an update that allows them to play a BD 2.0 disc, does that mean the player can play ALL 2.0 discs, or will it need specific updates on a case-by-case basis?

True, today's BD technology seem to be in a more stable state, but can anyone say with 100% certainty that 2.0 is our FINAL BD state? If this isn't for certain, then doesn't that mean we'll need to install firmware upgrades to play 2.X/3.0/X.X discs?

So for me, I say yes, firmware updates most definitely hurt BD adoption. To what extent, I'm not sure, but I'm quite certain it has a negative impact.

I've told at least 6 people in my office of 60, about my "blu-ray" experience, in how my player wouldn't play certain movies. A few months down the road, and nearly the entire office knows this story, which just demonstrates the power of word-of-mouth.

Ultimately, I believe their knowledge of my experiences with Blu-ray will have an impact on their perception and adoption to BD, and I don't think it's the kind of impact that makes them jump out of their seats to go buy a stand alone player.

[Bobby Henderson]

Firmware updates aren't a deal breaker for the general public. If anything, a sensible person would be glad to have a product whose firmware can be updated.

This wasn't the case for a lot of other kinds of consumer electronics devices when they were first introduced to the market. The first two generations of DVD players were rife with problems, not to mention hamstrung by a format war with the DiVX pay per view disc system. Back then if you bought a bad performing device you were stuck with having to return it for a refund -or live with it if the store wouldn't accept it.

The general public has usually preferred to sit on the fence and wait a couple of years for technology to settle before embracing a new audio/video format -whether it was music CD, VHS/Beta, DVD, etc.

PS3 owners often have to apply firmware updates to their systems due to other things being updated, such as the look and function of the Playstation Store. Thankfully, the process is pretty easy.

[Antny]

I know it's actually better for the public (in a sense) but as far as the grandma/grandpa that wants to just plug it in and use it I seriously doubt the could ever want or know how to upgrade. Case-in-point my grandmother whose VCR blinked 12:00 until the day she died. I guess as time goes by and the public gets older we'll probrably see it change in capabilities. I wonder if the firmware will "bottom out" or will I be upgrading for the life of my Sony.

[zweet77]

I have to say yes just seeing all of the horror stories of people not being able to play their movies.Its not going away though as technology continues to accelerate with out updates hardware or software that just came out could be obsolete in a few weeks.Plus it helps manufactures get their products to market before they become obsolete.

[ryoohki]

It's a breeze to do if you hook the latest batch of Hardware on the net. I know that not everyone have the net in their HT but if they do. The S350 even scan for new FW at PowerUP in the Background and warn you...

[Antny]

Yes but I've had discussions with people who say that they can't be bothered with a product that constantly has to be upgraded. Much to my dismay many of them couldn't imagine they would have to hook it up to the internet...they just want to play a movie. I tried explaining the future of electronics but I kinda got an eh? One of the good things is players that can update themselves that would win a bunch of them (internet people) over.
The best response was if I must go through all that then DVD is good enough. Then my response was

[Anthony P]

so these people don't have any computer? Everything needs an update sometimes and the truth is I never felt the "need" to update to watch a movie.

Except for people that buy into the FUD (and then what can you do against FUD) I don't think it affects anyone.

[quexos]

I would not think firmware updates could hurt adoption of the format. But yeah, I don't know what goes inside the head of J6P when he decides the pros of getting a BD player. Personally I'm glad that my gear can evolve and updating comes close to a pleasurable thing to do

[jon s]

while firmware updates in itself may not cause issues for buyers... it is the release of "not ready for prime time" players that will cause a lot of negative feelings against blu-ray... Pioneer's new BDP051 and BDP05FD Elite players, Denon's 3800, 2500, Sony's BDP-S300, and a lot of SamSung players are all contributors. The players had problems right out of the box and the buyer's are being used as debuggers. This should not be happening.

Another issue is that Java programmers hired by the disc producers are not up to speed as what can and cannot be done in Java. A perfect example is "For Your Eyes only" in which a programming bug is causing playback failure. A lot of programmers use little "shortcuts" or hacks which may not be recognized by the version of Java implemented in Blu-Ray. So, everytime a programming issue arises, either the disc has to be recalled (such as Iron Man or Master and Commander of the Far Side of the World) or the Java in the player has to be "fixed" to recognize the programming problem by a firmware update.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Antny

Just wondering, I know that it will not hurt the tech savvy person but for those that are electronically challanged I think it is an issue. DVD never required a firmware upgrade and BD should be set up for the masses. I know for a fact many people (even in my family) would never want to buy a disc and not be able to watch it because they need to update the firmware. This isn't a shot to BD (I love mine, and I know HD-DVD needed them too). I just wouldn't want anything to stop it's growth especially including the plug-and-play people around. I know you can set it up to upgrade itself via the internet but I still see a slew of people that "can't be bothered".

Opinions?

Going forward, firmware updates are a fact of life for interactive media boxes. These are now special purpose computers, rather than being simple electronic devices.

Cableco boxes update all the time, but because they are generally limitted to a very specific set of boxes, and are "online" by definition, it all happens automatically.

So, auto-updates are one possible solution, but then there will be endless blogs about the evils of having your box connected to the Internet. All sorts of conspiracy theories about BD+ shutting down your box have been and will again be spewed. How will J6P deal with that?

Right now we see people screaming about BD-Live being live, while at the same time we're wading through toxic sludge of "downloads will rule" articles.

I wonder how these download gurus plan to get people past the fact that the system will pretty much have to always be connected to the Internet? Somehow THAT ubiquitous connectivity will be all consumer-friendly and totally not to the benefit of the content providers?

Gary

[Antny]

I met my neighbors in front of my house and they know I'm into HT so they were interested in upgrading to a BD player. I told them about the firmware updates and I got the "You gotta be shitting me face". With some explaining I believe they will take the plunge . I honestly believe it may not be an issue if firmware upgrades were only needed about every 6 months or so. For the last 2 movies I bought I had to update for them to work. Hopefully things can stablize even more over time so they are not needed so often. Whatya think?

[Midnightsailor]

I've found that firmware updates are rather simple to deal with. However, studios should definitely keep them coming a lot faster. There are lots of people who can't watch certain titles, even now.