Why the emphasis on black?

[md99]

Related somewhat to the 'grain' thread posted elsewhere on the board, I was wondering why each and every review of LCD TV's places particular emphasis on a hdtv's ability to reproduce blacks?

[bhampton]

Because.... Black to video is like silence to audio. Elevated black level is simply noise.

And.... Signal to noise ratio is the most important specification.

Finally,... LCD black levels are the worst of all display technologies so ... when talking LCD black level is the most interesting factor.

I have lots of devices that use LCD's (laptop, cell phone, ipod and many more) so they have their usefulness but my HDTV is a CRT because black that truly black makes the image look 3D. (Gives the image depth.)

[Coop0129]

To answer your question....Go to Best Buy, look at the Insignia 46" 60 Hz 1080P LCD that they have compared to a Sony XBR6 120 Hz 1080P LCD. You will be able to answer your own question. If black is anything but black on the screen, it is distracting. Black should be Black! Not gray or blue or green.

[Coop0129]

md99 - Do you currently have an LCD tv?

[bhampton]

To put it another way...

LCD's are very sharp and very bright, the biggest drawback to LCD is black level. Therefore,.. when evaluating a LCD set it's ability to approach black is the most interesting and critical thing to gauge.

Color fidelity or accuracy can be another big issue with LCD so I would assume there is also a lot of attention given to that.

[bhampton]

Quote "md99 - Do you currently have an LCD tv?"

Yeah,... he's got the insignia 46". (Just kidding.)
(I don't know what he's got or plans to get.)
= Brian

[saprano]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Because.... Black to video is like silence to audio. Elevated black level is simply noise.

And.... Signal to noise ratio is the most important specification.

Finally,... LCD black levels are the worst of all display technologies so ... when talking LCD black level is the most interesting factor.

I have lots of devices that use LCD's (laptop, cell phone, ipod and many more) so they have their usefulness but my HDTV is a CRT because black that truly black makes the image look 3D. (Gives the image depth.)

Yea i calibrated my samsung to where the blacks are real black, obviously not plasma black but black enough (with no crush) and it really does make the image pop, POTC2 and many other movies look flawless.

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by saprano

Yea i calibrated my samsung to where the blacks are real black, obviously not plasma black but black enough (with no crush) and it really does make the image pop, POTC2 and many other movies look flawless.

Yes, more important than black levels is the absence of crush and clipping of below black. While achievement of plasma blacks is still impossible even with the best LED backlit LCD's, you can alleviate some of the black level problems with a suitable backlight for your wall (dimly lighting the wall behind your display). I like to have a little ambient light in my room, anyway. If you like to watch movies in a completely dark room, LCD blacks will be more of an issue.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by saprano

Yea i calibrated my samsung to where the blacks are real black, obviously not plasma black but black enough (with no crush) and it really does make the image pop, POTC2 and many other movies look flawless.

I too have calibrated the blacks like you have, yes it not at the same level as the plasma's but it approaches it and I can say they don't look grey, green or blue. I think if you have an LCD you have to really spend time adjusting it to your room setting, I watch in pretty close to complete darkness with a small light in the kitchen on, and I don't have any issue. A buddy of mine has a plasma and he always says he wants my LCD cause it looks so good... I think also, you have to buy the better quality LCD's, sony and samsung etc cause they spend the time to invest in making the blacks and colors better.

[Teabaggins]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

Yes, more important than black levels is the absence of crush and clipping of below black. While achievement of plasma blacks is still impossible even with the best LED backlit LCD's, you can alleviate some of the black level problems with a suitable backlight for your wall (dimly lighting the wall behind your display). I like to have a little ambient light in my room, anyway. If you like to watch movies in a completely dark room, LCD blacks will be more of an issue.

agreed, I think some ambient lighting makes a big difference with LCD black levels. the light keeps your pupils from being completely dilated so the blacks look deeper. when the room is pitch black the pupil opens up and the blacks will not look as "dark".

even a small 40 watt lamp that sits slightly behind a parallel line to the screen and off to the side will help if the individual doesn't want to have the strips behind the set. I have a small lamp with a linen shade that sits on a low corner table that works well

[saprano]

Im thinking about getting a table lamp for my room also.

And yea with the lights on i noticed the blacks go deeper its looks real nice, sometimes i just leave the lights on when i watch a movie.

[md99]

Originally Posted by Coop0129

md99 - Do you currently have an LCD tv?

Yeah, I've just got a 40" Bravia W4000. The reason I asked is because in a few scenes in my copy of TDK I have noticed some very patchy areas of black, usually in the background. The most notable during the Jokers 'hit me' scene and on the construction site at the end of the movie. I was wondering if this was a shortcoming with my TV or lcd hdtv's in general hence the original question.

I haven't had a chance to calibrate the TV yet either so hopefully it can be rectified.

Oh and thanks to the rest of you fellers for the replies

[md99]

Oh yeah, I've just been reading a few more replies and I've come across something familiar to me.

The two scenes in TDK which I've mentioned above, on my first viewing, at night in a darkened room, I noticed the imperfections. Checking again the next day however, during daylight I struggled to see them.

So, lighting or lack of actually has an effect on the images being displayed on an LCD screen?

[SellmeyourDVD]

In scenes like in the dark knight where they pan over a gotham in the night time you can really tell that lcd lack big time in the proper black level department.

Would i trade my lcd for a plasma though? Hecks no

[Driver_King]

Originally Posted by SellmeyourDVD

In scenes like in the dark knight where they pan over a gotham in the night time you can really tell that lcd lack big time in the proper black level department.

Would i trade my lcd for a plasma though? Hecks no

Why not?

[DarkhovaHT]

Originally Posted by SellmeyourDVD

In scenes like in the dark knight where they pan over a gotham in the night time you can really tell that lcd lack big time in the proper black level department.

Would i trade my lcd for a plasma though? Hecks no

Sounds like a personal problem

[JJ]

Heck, I know my LCD struggles with blacks. I don't have blacks. I have grays. Watching TDK was a bit of the last straw though. Didn't bother me much until I saw it. Plasma within 2 months.

[DarkhovaHT]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

Heck, I know my LCD struggles with blacks. I don't have blacks. I have grays. Watching TDK was a bit of the last straw though. Didn't bother me much until I saw it. Plasma within 2 months.

I would go Plasma but IR and the fact i use my TV as a computer screen scares me plus i dont want to limit my self when watching things with static images....

I sure like the prices on those Panny's i could easily get my hands on a Panny 50 Inch 1080p for around 1100 but still hesitant.....I think a LED LCD down the road would be a better choice for me

[callas01]

I think JJ that you now have pioneer complex...lol

Seriously, I think LCD's have great pq and the blacks can be very good, but I think it depends on the manufacture and calibrating the settings

[JJ]

Originally Posted by callas01

I think JJ that you now have pioneer complex...lol

Seriously, I think LCD's have great pq and the blacks can be very good, but I think it depends on the manufacture and calibrating the settings

I do! Panasonic complex though. Going Panny 50" 85u series. It's a goal, anyway.