Which TT is right for me?

[rded]

Hi All,

I have been reading your input on vinyl and turntables fo a while now. I got the approval from the wife to get a really good TT(hopefully in 2-3 months). This will be my 1st TT I am currently waiting on the Arcam AVR 600 so after I recover financially then I'll get a TT. At this point I could safely say that 2k is the budget I have in mind. I've heard the Avid divaII and the Michell Gyro SE(way above my budget). I am gravitating toward the Michell as it sounds just as good as it looks. I'm thinking simaudio LP3 for phono stage.
Are there anyother any other TTs I should be looking into? I know somebody here owns a VPI scout and thats the one I wanna audition next.


Cheers!

Rhett

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hi Rhett!

Congrats on your decision to get a TT! There is nothing in this world that compares to the "vinyl" sound. And that is a pretty decent budget as well for a first-timer. Is your budget flexible at all and does it include both the TT and Phone Stage?

Some brands for consideration that come to mind are Pro-ject, Sota, Music Hall, Rega and you might even be able to score an entry-level VPI.

Have you perused websites from Acoustic Sounds, Music Direct, Elusive Disc, etc? You'll get a good feel for what's out there in your price range.

John

[Johnny Vinyl]

For the record.....don't look at my TT...it's 20-yrs old and they don't make them any longer. Also, it wouldn't compare it to what you're considering, as they are much better.

Actually, REVOLVER does have a new TT out called the REPLAY, but it lists for $3,500 USD.

John

[rded]

Originally Posted by John72953

Hi Rhett!

Congrats on your decision to get a TT! There is nothing in this world that compares to the "vinyl" sound. And that is a pretty decent budget as well for a first-timer. Is your budget flexible at all and does it include both the TT and Phone Stage?

Some brands for consideration that come to mind are Pro-ject, Sota, Music Hall, Rega and you might even be able to score an entry-level VPI.

Have you perused websites from Acoustic Sounds, Music Direct, Elusive Disc, etc? You'll get a good feel for what's out there in your price range.

John

The budget is definitely flexible- I know I'll be up 3k when its all said and done(TT, cables, phono stage and cartidge). I have actually surfed and actually went to music direct's physical warehouse. They're very helpful and are willing to do package deals. I've actally heard the Rega P1 months ago and have been impressed so I wonder how the higher end one's will sound?. The Project xpression or RM 5.1 were actaully the 1st ones I auditioned. Its just that nobody in Chicago has the higher-end project tables for demo.
John, I prefer not to shop online for TTs as I can't physically touch and audition them-I'm old school like that I'll definitely be auditiong the VPIs,Regas and thorens next. I'll keep in mind the other brands you mentioned as well.
What are your thoughts on the GYRO SE and VPI?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by rded

I've actally heard the Rega P1 months ago and have been impressed so I wonder how the higher end one's will sound?

I can tell you that the difference between the P1 and P3 is extremely noticeable right off the bat. Silibance of voices and percussion is immediately more open and analog sounding versus the P1.

[Johnny Vinyl]

I can't comment on the GYRO as I've never seen it here in Canada, but I've listened to various models of VPI. In fact, I'm planning on buying a new TT this year as well. My dream is to get an Oracle Delphi V, but that is way out of my budget.

The 2 TT's I'm seriously considering are the VPI Aries 3 and the Pro-ject RPM 10, although I may have to set my sights slighly lower...we'll have to see. I had orginally planned a budget of $5,000 (including a phone stage), but I don't think I'll achieve that within those parameters. So I still have some thinking and planning to do.

I would love to audition the GYRO, but like you I won't buy a TT online. I did consider a really good deal some months ago from CanuckAudiomart, but I was wisely steered away.

Like you, I have many more questions before my final decision and will hold off a bit (purchase won't happen until the second half of this year). If you want, you can have a look at the thread I started some months ago about my plans that I called my 2-Channel Audio Wishlist.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I can tell you that the difference between the P1 and P3 is extremely noticeable right off the bat. Silibance of voices and percussion is immediately more open and analog sounding versus the P1.

The REGA is a nice TT for sure. Tell me something...I was at a Linn Dealer in St.Catherines some years ago. Are they still around? Do they have other TT's as well?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by John72953

I did consider a really good deal some months ago from CanuckAudiomart, but I was wisely steered away.

I found a good deal on Canuck Audio Mart...and the ad was from a dealer in Hamilton, Locke Street Audio. He deals in Rega, Arcam and some really nice German loudspeakers whose name escapes me. I was able to go to his place and check out the TT's I was interested in and got a great deal on the Goldring GR-2. I wasn't interested much in buying online, but you can find some good local classifieds that way.

Originally Posted by John72953

The REGA is a nice TT for sure. Tell me something...I was at a Linn Dealer in St.Catherines some years ago. Are they still around? Do they have other TT's as well?

I think you're talking about Better Music. There's no longer a storefront, the guy (Gary) does everything online now and in home visits and he still deals with Linn, Rega, Nad, Runco and Morduant Short.

http://www.bettermusic.ca/Welcome%20...r%20Music.html

[richteer]

John and Doby have imparted some great advice. I can't think of much to add at this stage except to say that the phono stage you're looking is well regarded. Whatever phonostage you buy, make sure it is MC (in addition to MM) compatible, to keep your cartridge options open.

Also, remember that what you buy now isn't necessarily what you need to keep "for ever". If you buy wisely, you can always upgrade the tonearm (for example) when more funds are available.

Oh one last thing: check out the entry level Clearaudio turntable too. And have fun!

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hey Rich,

So for a $3,000 budget (all in) what recommendations do you have? I think that the MusicHall 9.1 with a decent cartridge and the SimAudio LP3 Phono might make that? What do you think? Any good?

[rded]

Hi guys! Wow! this thread has erupted in the last few -thanks for the input I just got back from Decibel Audio here in Chicago to audition the Gyro but they didn't have the cartridge for it so I listened to the Clearaudio Performance Turntable Package instead. It really has a lot of slam. The dealer descibes it as a rock and roll TT but I felt that it lacked the detail on the otherhand it really fits my budget. I dunno about this one though... The Dealer at decibel said the GYRO is high upgradable and I can eventually upgade it to the Orb which is Michell's top of the line TT overtime and that is just awesome to me. I am a very obsessive individual and just wont stop upgrading.Decible had music but what they had for demo is in the lower category. Alas there are more TTs to listen to and yes REGA and thorens are next.

[rded]

BTW the Arcam AVR 600 has a built in phono stage so this will enable me to get the best possible TT,arm and cartridge(to stat with) budget-wise.

[rded]

Originally Posted by John72953

The 2 TT's I'm seriously considering are the VPI Aries 3 and the Pro-ject RPM 10, although I may have to set my sights slighly lower...we'll have to see. I had orginally planned a budget of $5,000 (including a phone stage), but I don't think I'll achieve that within those parameters. So I still have some thinking and planning to do.

From reading the brochure on the VPIs, it seems like the Aries 3 is way better than the Project RPM10 but also costs more. With my budget, I am in the ballpark of the scoutmaster or if I stretch it the Aries 3. I have to go to music direct to listen to these two if they have it. One thing with VPIs is that these are also upgradable. Have you considered coming to the states and buying the TT here. With the strong canadian $ your trip should be worth while

[Johnny Vinyl]

I'd have to try and bring it across the border without getting nabbed for duties and taxes. VPI won't ship to Canada (nor will allow their US resellers to do so...as far as I know). The other thing is...warrenty issues. For that kind of money I want access to a full warrenty.

The think I like about VPI is exactly what you said...easily upgradable. I like that.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

Hey Rich,

So for a $3,000 budget (all in) what recommendations do you have? I think that the MusicHall 9.1 with a decent cartridge and the SimAudio LP3 Phono might make that? What do you think? Any good?

Hmm, that's a tough one! The MMF-9.1 looks light it might be pretty good, although the the seeming inability to upgrade the tone arm would give me pause at this price level. (Am I the only person who thinks the '9.1 bears a striking resembalence to the Roksan TMS?) But if this was as high as I was planning to go (turntable upgrades notwithstanding), the '9.1 would probably be on my short list. (A brief aside: my first turntable was the Roksan Xerxes with a Rega RB300 arm. I later upgraded the arm to the SME Series V--quite a big jump! Someone "relieved" me of my front end, so I had to start over with my Forsell. Hurrah for insurance!)

One option might be the AVID DIva II ($2300) with a Rega arm. That would be great while saving up for one of the SME arms (which you could also use on other models further up the AVID line).

I'd probably partner it (or some other TT/tonearm combo) with the Lyra Dorian. I have a Lyra Parnassus (once their top of the line model), so I'm kinda partial to Lyras I guess.

I think the LP3 phono stage is great value for only $500, so yeah, I think that'd be a pretty safe bet.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

I'd have to try and bring it across the border without getting nabbed for duties and taxes. VPI won't ship to Canada (nor will allow their US resellers to do so...as far as I know). The other thing is...warrenty issues. For that kind of money I want access to a full warrenty.

Very wise. At this level I think it's a bit foolish to jeoprodise one's warranty just to save a few bucks. *Shrug*

[richteer]

Originally Posted by rded

BTW the Arcam AVR 600 has a built in phono stage so this will enable me to get the best possible TT,arm and cartridge(to stat with) budget-wise.

Is that phono stage MC compatible? If not, then you're gonna want an external MC phono stage to keep your options open. Unless, of course, you opt for an MM cartridge!

[Johnny Vinyl]

Rhett,

I don't want to hi-jack your thread, but I want to ask Rich a question that I think we would both benefit from.

Here is the question:

Rich,

I can hear a significant change to my present setup by introducing a low-end Phonostage. I can completely understand that by going to a higher quality Phonostage the sound would improve even more. But I have a problem...I cannot for the life of me figure out the importance of a tone-arm change. I can understand a cartridge change, but I'm drawing a complete blank on the other.

Would you be so kind as to educate us?

John

[rded]

Originally Posted by richteer

Is that phono stage MC compatible? If not, then you're gonna want an external MC phono stage to keep your options open. Unless, of course, you opt for an MM cartridge!

The dealer said it has both mm-mc. But I know eventually I'm going to get a separate phono stage. Definitely simaudio LP3 or if the budget permits, the LP5.3(God willing!).
I've heard the Avid Diva II briefly but I have to listen to it again.

Rich, do educate us on the tonearms. From what I understand a better tonearm allows for better attachement of cartridges and some tonearms like the signature vpi arms arm wired with nordost valhalla cabling but I'm sure there's more to it...

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

Rich,

I can hear a significant change to my present setup by introducing a low-end Phonostage. I can completely understand that by going to a higher quality Phonostage the sound would improve even more. But I have a problem...I cannot for the life of me figure out the importance of a tone-arm change. I can understand a cartridge change, but I'm drawing a complete blank on the other.

Would you be so kind as to educate us?

John

I'll do my best! Bear in mind that I am not an engineer, so any engineers in the audience please forgive any imprecise language!

On the surface, the tonearm has a simple job: to support the cartridge in the right place as it travereses the record by following the record's groove.

The stylus wiggles in the groove, which results in a very small electrical signal, representing the music. Because the signal levels are so small (especially with MC cartridges), any movement of the cartridge while it is reading the groove will result in some distortion.

The cartridge's reading of the groove can also excite any resonances in the tone arm. Some are less prone to excitement and are better damped than others. When the arm resonates, it vibrates, and this vibration causes small displacements in cartridge position--which introduces distortion.

Ideally, you want the arm to resonate as little as possible, and what ever resonant energy exists to be sinked into the turntable's plinth ASAP. (How the turntable deals with these vibrations is one thing that affects their performance.)

All the above (purely from a mechanical point of view) makes tone arm design a difficult job, but there's more. Certain things (like VTA, tracking weight, etc.) must be adjustable, so the designer has to make these things adjustable while trying not to compromise the mechanical integrity of the arm. Some are better at this than others.

Then there are other aspects which are a bit easier to grasp, for example the cables used within the arm. Cheaper arms will just your average cheap 'n' cheerful signal cable, whereas others will use better cables (e.g., SME uses Van den Hull and (IIRC) VPI uses Nordost Valhalla in some of their arms).

Finally there's the more subtle things, like engineering standards. The Rega RB300 is a fine, reasonably well engineered budget arm, but it is incomparable to the quality something like the SME Series V oozes. Given the huge price differential, I'd expect nothing else!

I hope this answers your's and Rded's questions sufficiently well!