Film Mode: How, Why, and When?

[Aldaron]

I'm confused about "film" mode: what it does, what it's for, how to set it up and when to use it.

I have:

BD Player: Samsung BD-P2500
TV: Samsung PN50-A650

The BD player has a setting called "Movie Frame (24 fs)" and the TV has a setting called "Film Mode".

Is there any drawback to turning both these settings on all the time? What are the benefits?

[MrTaxMan]

Film movies (anything shown at a movie theater) are filmed at 24 frames per second and stored on DVDs in that format. Video tape (VCR movies) and television broadcasts are 30 fps. Up until a few years ago all televisions (including tube, plasma, and LCD) would only support 30 fps. So DVD players had to convert the 24 fps content to 30 fps. They did this by repeating some of the frames. The technology in DVD players got so good that this frame conversion was not really noticeable to most--if not all. Few years ago television makers and Blu-Ray machine makers began supporting 24 fps. It would only work if both devices supported it.

Theoretically, you'd think everyone would jump at this and demand it on all devices. But in reality, the advantage is very slight. Picture might be a little smoother. Perhaps a little clearer. In short, you are viewing the movie as the filmmakers filmed it and how it would be viewed in a theater. By enabling the 24 fps option on both you are now a little closer to the filmmakers true vision and to the theater experience.

I have it enabled on my system but cannot really tell the difference. There is no drawback.

[Aldaron]

Thanks. A few follow up questions:

(1) What happens to sources that are not 24fps? Do they just go back to 60?

(2) How does 120Hz figure into all of this?

(3) I'm still not clear exactly what the settings on my two devices do. Does the 24fps setting on the BD player force 24fps, or just enable it for sources that have it? I'm even less clear what "Film Mode" on the TV does, maybe this has nothing do do with frame rate at all.

(4) I've read that there are TVs that are "true" 24fps sets, and many that just "fake it" (with worse results than disabling it). Is the PN50-A650 a "true" 24fps set?

[MrTaxMan]

If you have both enabled but you are viewing a source at 30fps, then yes, the devices will default to 30 or 60 fps. That's why you can leave it enabled all the time and let the devices figure out the most suitable method to display. No device will display a 60 fps source at 24 fps. The source HAS to be 24 fps AND you're using HDMI. Otherwise it defaults to 60.

I have the Samsung 4671, which I believe is the model just before your TV and yes, Film Mode is the same thing as 24 fps.

I've seen long forum arguments on if these TVs are 'true' 24 fps. It gets very complicated on the meaning of 'true'. I think 120Hz allows a true 24 fps. You'll have to go into the threads for your TV and see what the 'experts' say about it.

I had the Samsung BD1400 player for a year but recently switched to the Panasonic BD35. Here's what it's manual says about 24 fps:

"These can be output in 24p as the original. Therefore, high-quality video can be enjoyed, such as improved clarity, enhanced perspective, etc."

Have you done a comparison yet? Watch a movie at 60fps and then switch to 24fps? I haven't noticed a difference but I've read others saying 24 fps was a little clearer.

[Aldaron]

Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll try it out and see what I notice.

So am I right that I need to have both "Film Mode" enabled on the TV and "Movie Frame" enabled on the BD player for 24fps to work? If I leave them both on, nothing changes unless the disk provides 24fps, in which case I get a 24fps "experience", right?

Does the "Film Mode" on the TV do anything else? Is it just making the TV respond to 24fps (when the BD player is configured to deliver it)? If I have it off is 24fps from the BD Player just ignored?

[MrTaxMan]

'Film Mode' only does that one thing: enable 24fps. And it won't work unless the 24fps option is enabled on the player and the TV. If one is disabled, then you go back to 30. HDMI is smart enough to determine which one to use. (BTW, it's 30 frames per second or 60 fields per second.)

The other interesting thing about 24fps is it only works in progressive mode. Not interlaced. So if you had your player set to output at 1080i and Film Mode on, you might expect to see the movie at 1080i 24fps. But it doesn't do that. It switches to 1080p 24. I don't know how or why.

Next time you're watching a movie, press the 'Info' button on the TV remote. It will tell you if you're watching at 24 or 30.

[dtowntke]

are there any 720 displays the support 24fps

[Aldaron]

I've tired it out and nothing works as expected.

First off, I can't even turn on "Film Mode" on the TV: that's disabled and set to "Off". That ought to prevent me from seeing 24 fps (from what I understand from the above posts) but instead, my TV "Info" says 24 Hz. Moreover, it says this regardless of the source! So now I'm back where I started: confused.

Why can't I enable "Film Mode" on the TV?
Why does the TV say 24 Hz even when "Film Mode" isn't on.
Why does the TV indicate 24 Hz with sources that aren't 24 fps?

[MrTaxMan]

Now you're getting into bizarre territory. I, too would be confused with that set of facts. Try temporarily changing the source on the TV. My Film Mode option is disabled (but set to On) when viewing BD. But is enabled while viewing cable. Doesn't make sense.
If it's still screwed up then you'll have to pose your questions in the thread for your specific TV.

Here's one more tidbit I recently read. Someone suggested that when viewing 24fps content, it might be best to turn off the Auto Motion Plus on your TV. Something about how the two do not complement each other. Don't know if this is fact or theory but I'll experiment to see if it makes a difference.

I've reached the end of my usefulness here. Good luck!

[Aldaron]

I think "Film Mode" may in fact be an alternative to "Movie Frame".

It seems (I'm guessing, and would love an answer from someone who knows) that the former is processing the TV can do if you lack a source that can provide 24 fps. If you have one, you don't need it (and can't use it). It sounds like it corresponds to the AMP feature on some (LCD' 120 Hz?) sets and is perhaps something that 120 Hz or plasma sets don't need if they have "good" sources.

Anyway, I clearly don't know and would appreciate any help sorting this out.

[hoju3508]

Thanks for the explanation.

Originally Posted by MrTaxMan

Film movies (anything shown at a movie theater) are filmed at 24 frames per second and stored on DVDs in that format. Video tape (VCR movies) and television broadcasts are 30 fps. Up until a few years ago all televisions (including tube, plasma, and LCD) would only support 30 fps. So DVD players had to convert the 24 fps content to 30 fps. They did this by repeating some of the frames. The technology in DVD players got so good that this frame conversion was not really noticeable to most--if not all. Few years ago television makers and Blu-Ray machine makers began supporting 24 fps. It would only work if both devices supported it.

Theoretically, you'd think everyone would jump at this and demand it on all devices. But in reality, the advantage is very slight. Picture might be a little smoother. Perhaps a little clearer. In short, you are viewing the movie as the filmmakers filmed it and how it would be viewed in a theater. By enabling the 24 fps option on both you are now a little closer to the filmmakers true vision and to the theater experience.

I have it enabled on my system but cannot really tell the difference. There is no drawback.