High fidelity vinyl "never goes obsolete!"

[Kristin Simard]

Yesterday I visited a friend who recently inherited a huge collection of 33 rpm vinyl records from an audiophile who had bought them new and kept them in good collection. She also had one of his many stereos, a nice Sony from the 1970's.

This man seemed to have every Original Broadway Cast Recording from the 1950's and 1960's, among other things. One of the first discs I noticed was "Mary Martin in a New Musical Play 'The Sound of Music' ". I couldn't locate a release date on the cover.

What made me laugh was what I read on the back cover.

"This Columbia High Fidelity recording is scientifically designed to play with the highest quality of reproduction on the phonograph of your choice, old or new. If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."


Keep collecting!

[Spankey]

I wouldn't laugh too hard. Depending on the quality the album was kept in, and the system it's played on, it may rival any CD pressing to date.

[ShawnE94SL]

Originally Posted by Spankey

I wouldn't laugh too hard. Depending on the quality the album was kept in, and the system it's played on, it may rival any CD pressing to date.

This is true. Vinyl is still a prefered choice for true audiophiles.

[Blubaru]

This was my laugh this week:

[Kristin Simard]

Originally Posted by Spankey

I wouldn't laugh too hard. Depending on the quality the album was kept in, and the system it's played on, it may rival any CD pressing to date.

The sound quality is surprisingly good, but in one way I will differ with you. Vinyl 33 rpm is obsolete. Musical groups no longer routinely release their recordings on 33 rpm and haven't done so for a long time. CDs are also obsolete, though they are still widely used.

For me and my friend it was fun looking through these old releases, and it was a laugh, since we've mostly been hearing about Blu-ray recently.

[Kristin Simard]

Originally Posted by Blubaru

This was my laugh this week:

Yeah, nothing beats that, I guess

[tron3]

Oh geeze. Enough already of RoboCop's human Slurpy. Ok, I laughed too, but now it is going back to just being gross.


...Love RoboCop.

[X-Ninja]

Originally Posted by Blubaru

This was my laugh this week:

I do indeed love your location.

Tonight... YOU! No!

[buckshot]

there are still vinyl releases today. i just listened to a hardcore band (straight faced) on vinyl that was released about 4 years ago. vinyl is amazing and always will be. I'm interested to hear CCR on SACD because i have several LPs from them and my father has the rest. let me just say that the "remastered" digital cds pale in comparison. hence why i want the sacds. and don't get me started about the white album. VINYL DESTROYS ALL!

[sAvAgE69]

Vinyl has this sound about it that you would never be able to replicate on CD. I still have all my Vinyl at home packed away in prestine order , waiting for that day when I can get a Turntable hooked up to a Jadis Pre amp and a VTL Stereo power amp.

[RUR]

One need only visit Music Direct to see that vinyl, as an audiophile niche market, is alive and well.

Vinyl: http://www.musicdirect.com/category/13

Turntables: http://www.musicdirect.com/category/21
(and audiophiles can and do spend five figures on a turntable )

[Kristin Simard]

Originally Posted by RUR

One need only visit Music Direct to see that vinyl, as an audiophile niche market, is alive and well.

Vinyl: http://www.musicdirect.com/category/13

Turntables: http://www.musicdirect.com/category/21
(and audiophiles can and do spend five figures on a turntable )

You do have a point there. I understand that the new vinyl records are better than the old generation.

Also, collectors will collect many things. So how do you define "obsolete"? To me, vinyl records, except at the high end, are obsolete. But that's just semantics. You do have a point.

When you have a diamond needle travelling through a vinyl groove, the harder (diamond) surface will wear down the softer (vinyl) surface. Every time you play a record there is a small amount of wear that over time becomes noticeable. Even the needles themselves need to be replaced due to wear. So vinyl is an ephemeral media. (I'm referring to the old vinyl of the era when 33 rpm records were standard. I don't know about the new ones.)

I noticed on these 33 rpm records a deep bass surface noise, even on the most pristine record. And of course surface noise increases (at many frequencies) when there is dust, dirt, scratching, groove wear, etc.

So, How do vinyl records compare to PCM uncompressed or TRUE HD Blu-ray sound?
(I don't yet have a good enough sound system to want to make such a call.)

And who changed the heading on the thread I started?

[Homer_Skins]

I have my Denon DP-51F Direct Drive Turntable that I bought in 1985 hooked up to my Denon 2808CI AVR through a NAD Pre Amp. It is so cool to hear that needle hit the platter and you immediately here the wow and flutter. I am a lover of 80's rock like The Kings (This Beat Goes On/ Switchin' To Glide!), The Outfield, Survivor, etc. When I listen to 2-channel stereo I run through two Polks and a Velodyne Sub. Sweet Sonic Love! Eargasm... Skins

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by Kristin Simard

So, How do vinyl records compare to PCM uncompressed or TRUE HD Blu-ray sound?
(I don't yet have a good enough sound system to want to make such a call.)

A very good but difficult question to answer ... First of all it's a tough thing to compare analogue with digital; second, perceptible sound quality doesn't always relate directly to the sort of digital in question.

"PCM uncompressed" is not a monolithic standard. You have various grades of quality available which reflect different bit depths and sampling rates of PCM audio. CD is 16/44.1 PCM stereo, i.e. two channels of 16-bit audio sampled 44,100 times a second. The uncompressed PCM on Blu-ray is often six channels of 16/48, sometimes 24/48. Then there are the losslessly compressed tracks of even higher quality (e.g. 24/96 multichannel on Dave Matthews Band BD).

This is controversial and in a way a silly generalization, but I think that very roughly, the sound of vinyl can be captured or mimicked at least approximately by 24/96 or 24/192 PCM stereo. (Nowadays it's less controversial that 16/44.1 isn't quite up to the task.)

[WickyWoo]

This is controversial and in a way a silly generalization, but I think that very roughly, the sound of vinyl can be captured or mimicked at least approximately by 24/96 or 24/192 PCM stereo. (Nowadays it's less controversial that 16/44.1 isn't quite up to the task.)

And you dont' get snap crackle pops.

Vinyl is awful don't get me wrong. I don't care how good the potential fidelity is, it wears out and you get at best one play before the crackling starts no matter how much you wash the thing

All my vinyl is either collector's items or for display (awesome art) (same with most of my LDs)

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

And you dont' get snap crackle pops.

Vinyl is awful don't get me wrong. I don't care how good the potential fidelity is, it wears out and you get at best one play before the crackling starts no matter how much you wash the thing

All my vinyl is either collector's items or for display (awesome art) (same with most of my LDs)

Just to add to that, vinyl fans don't like to advertise the fact that even CD can deliver better lows, though vinyl is excellent in the mids and low mids.

On the 24/192 stereo DVD-A of Grateful Dead's American Beauty you can hear gorgeous bottom with massive atmosphere (the kick drum with lots of reverb) just way beyond the reach of vinyl.

[hardcore_canadian]

Vinyl Will make it's Comeback, mark my words.... May only be a Niche, but it's a growing Niche.

Also, my store is selling more and more every month, the sales report say so

[WriteSimply]

Using a low- to mid-end system, SACD can be close to or on the same level as a high-end vinyl. Too bad it didn't catch on because the record companies were in panic mode over MP3s.


fuad

[Kristin Simard]

Originally Posted by hardcore_canadian

Vinyl Will make it's Comeback, mark my words.... May only be a Niche, but it's a growing Niche.
Also, my store is selling more and more every month, the sales report say so

A store in the town where I live sells the new generation vinyl records, too. What I find interesting are the laser turntables, not the ones that just find the center of the space between audio tracks and drop the needle there, but the ones that actually read the analogue signal without a needle. When CDs first came out, they used these to clean up old analog recordings as the laser could read parts of the groove that a needle could not. Then they converted the analog signal to digital. Those turntable / converters were priced at about $125,000 USD. I think they found that the correct needle worked almost as well and cost a lot less. The rest could be filtered (to some degree of success) digitally.

The new ELP laser turntables use 5 lasers to read the groove and cost "only" about $15,000 USD. But I wonder if vinyl is the best medium for the soundtrack in this system. Mylar is chemically more stable than vinyl, unless they have done new things with vinyl that I don't know about.

In any case, IMO the old vinyl record and playback system is still "obsolete".

[buckshot]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

Using a low- to mid-end system, SACD can be close to or on the same level as a high-end vinyl. Too bad it didn't catch on because the record companies were in panic mode over MP3s.


fuad

i do wish sacd would make a comeback. they are more convenient than my vinyl, and easier to store.