more Speakers better than 7.1 channel ?? - Blu-ray Forum

Opips2 · 04-01-2009, 07:49 PM

I've receiver has build in amp 7 channel and pre-out for an separates power amplifier has 7 channel. that's total 14 speakers.

help better sound??

one problem about watts is different. receiver 50 watts at all 7 channel and power amp 125 watts at all 7 channel. Is that okay??

Opips2 · 04-01-2009, 07:59 PM

In Theater, many speakers..maybe 20 speakers per each rear, front, right, left

CosmoKid · 04-01-2009, 08:00 PM

I have a really tough time understanding what you are saying.

If I am understanding you properly, you can not have 14 channels. You can either use the built in amp or a serarate amp on each channel, not both. Your receiver has a menu where you choose which to use. It's one or the other.

But I love that you wanted a 14.1 system.

CosmoKid · 04-01-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opips2

In Theater, many speakers..maybe 20 speakers per each rear, front, right, left

theaters are a different ballgame. their pre-amps matrix the audio mix into the number of speakers they have in the theater.

kingofgrills · 04-01-2009, 08:02 PM

I wouldn't advise using the built-in amplification and also the separate amplifier. You'll still be dealing with source material and surround encoding that only covers a maximum of 7.1 channels, so unless you're running a commercial sized theater, you'll drown yourself out pushing 14 individual speakers.

Given the setup you just described, you'd be better off using the receiver as a pre-amplifier / surround processor, and use the 7.1 channel pre-outs to power your separate amplifier and powered subwoofer. This should provide you the cleanest and most dynamic surround experience given your gear. Stick with that, and don't use the built-in internal amplifiers for your receiver.

Opips2 · 04-01-2009, 08:17 PM

Thanks, I understand.
I wish 14.1 speakers sound big awesome!!

Driver_King · 04-01-2009, 08:18 PM

I read online about doing this on my receiver (the Onkyo 805). Someone contacted Onkyo and said that it makes no difference as the pre-outs are active all the time. The amp inside your receiver will not blow up if you want to do this.

Opips2 · 04-01-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver_King

I read online about doing this on my receiver (the Onkyo 805). Someone contacted Onkyo and said that it makes no difference as the pre-outs are active all the time. The amp inside your receiver will not blow up if you want to do this.

(evil laugh) mahaha ooh yes haha!!

Driver_King · 04-01-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opips2

(evil laugh) mahaha ooh yes haha!!

Yeah, how do you think crazyBLUE went 9.1?

aramis109 · 04-01-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver_King

I read online about doing this on my receiver (the Onkyo 805). Someone contacted Onkyo and said that it makes no difference as the pre-outs are active all the time. The amp inside your receiver will not blow up if you want to do this.

Seriously? Never knew this. Gotta link?

Hrm, suddenly the possibilities with my 805 just got wide open.

Driver_King · 04-01-2009, 08:57 PM

Link.

Big Daddy · 04-01-2009, 09:40 PM

An old geezer like me has been doing this for years. My system is 10.4. Since the front Def Techs have built-in 15" powered subs, I can make it 10.6. Maybe I should add more subwoofers than speakers and make it 10.12.

Currently, I have the internal amp of the receiver run the Def Tech side surrounds and an external amplifier to power the PSB side surrounds. My Denon receiver actually supports 2 set of side surrounds. However, it warns against using low impedance speakers. The PSB speakers are 6 Ohm so I decided to use an external amp to drive them.

One major problem with using 14.1 is phase cancellation between the speakers as they are not receiving different signals. Dolby PLIIz can do 9.1 discrete channels. I am sure they can extend that to 14.1. However, most people cannot even accomodate 5.1. Not everybody is crazy like us.

Sonny · 04-01-2009, 09:51 PM

I love it! What does the average theater have as far as number of speakers? "Guesstament"..? Does anyone work at a theater & know how many there's have? Thanks.

liquidice · 04-02-2009, 02:36 AM

well I just took my daughter to Monsters vs Aliens today, and in my nature I spent the entire time till 'show time' looking around the theater. There were 5 speakers on the side walls, and two in the far back wall behind us, and for the center and subs I could not see those, but today was the first time in a theater that I thought to myself, "wow, that dialogue sounds unbelivable!!!". The bass was dramatic, and yet tight. I would guess a couple of 15" woofers for bass, in the front stage area. It did seem kind of directional, meaning I could tell the bass was coming from the front stage, which shouldn't happen. I'm sure most theaters run their subs at a pretty high gain for impact. I would be curious about exact specs of center channel though. This was a Carmike theater by-the-by. Defect of center was that I could tell alot of dialogue was being routed to the subwoofers.

randy8118 · 04-02-2009, 03:30 AM

Ah, but 22.2 is on it's way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22.2

Can anyone recommend a good Top-Back-Center speaker?

crazyBLUE · 04-02-2009, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

An old geezer like me has been doing this for years. My system is 10.4. Since the front Def Techs have built-in 15" powered subs, I can make it 10.6. Maybe I should add more subwoofers than speakers and make it 10.12.

Currently, I have the internal amp of the receiver run the Def Tech side surrounds and an external amplifier to power the PSB side surrounds. My Denon receiver actually supports 2 set of side surrounds. However, it warns against using low impedance speakers. The PSB speakers are 6 Ohm so I decided to use an external amp to drive them.

One major problem with using 14.1 is phase cancellation between the speakers as they are not receiving different signals. Dolby PLIIz can do 9.1 discrete channels. I am sure they can extend that to 14.1. However, most people cannot even accomodate 5.1. Not everybody is crazy like us.

As I was reading through this thread I was saying to my self YES YOU CAN GO FARTHER THAN 7.1 WITH A RECEIVER & AN AMP !!....
Than there was DK he knew , I knew Big Daddy would be lurking somewhere

Yes I had A 9.1 ~ 7 channel amp 7 speakers & I had another set of surr wired to the surr. of the receiver ~~~9.1 !!

Squozen · 04-02-2009, 06:04 AM

A better idea is sticking to 7.1 and buying 7 good speakers, not 14 shitty ones, but that's just my opinion.

RiseDarthVader · 04-02-2009, 08:06 AM

In our "VMAX" cinemas over here at Greater Union cinemas we have I think 15-20 speakers lining the side about 4 at the back and 3 behind the screen and 1 subwoofer behind the screen. Here is the subwoofer and speakers we use http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=52
http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=47
http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=64

liquidice · 04-02-2009, 08:16 AM

wow, those are badass! When I worked at a pro-audio store years ago, we had two different subs in these huge bandpass box that were about the size of my Civic. One was 18", the other I think was 21". I only remember hooking them up once for demonstration, and at a higher volume, the shook the earth. Lots of fun.

crazyBLUE · 04-02-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiseDarthVader

In our "VMAX" cinemas over here at Greater Union cinemas we have I think 15-20 speakers lining the side about 4 at the back and 3 behind the screen and 1 subwoofer behind the screen. Here is the subwoofer and speakers we use http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=52
http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=47
http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=64

I like the Kx - 5986 Speakers , love to have those as A set of fronts !!

04-01-2009, 07:49 PM	#1
Opips2 Special Member Member since:Nov 2008 Location:Edmonton, AB Home Theater Gallery:6 Blu-ray collection:175 Blu-ray reviews:10 Trading Score:1	more Speakers better than 7.1 channel ?? I've receiver has build in amp 7 channel and pre-out for an separates power amplifier has 7 channel. that's total 14 speakers. help better sound?? one problem about watts is different. receiver 50 watts at all 7 channel and power amp 125 watts at all 7 channel. Is that okay??

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04-01-2009, 07:59 PM	#2
Opips2 Special Member Member since:Nov 2008 Location:Edmonton, AB Home Theater Gallery:6 Blu-ray collection:175 Blu-ray reviews:10 Trading Score:1	In Theater, many speakers..maybe 20 speakers per each rear, front, right, left

04-01-2009, 08:00 PM	#3
CosmoKid Active Member Member since:Oct 2008 Location:Nutley, NJ Blu-ray collection:82 Trading Score:1	I have a really tough time understanding what you are saying. If I am understanding you properly, you can not have 14 channels. You can either use the built in amp or a serarate amp on each channel, not both. Your receiver has a menu where you choose which to use. It's one or the other. But I love that you wanted a 14.1 system.

04-01-2009, 08:02 PM	#5
kingofgrills Blu-ray Guru Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Dec 2007 Location:PDX Home Theater Gallery:31 4K collection:5 Blu-ray collection:81 Trading Score:31	I wouldn't advise using the built-in amplification and also the separate amplifier. You'll still be dealing with source material and surround encoding that only covers a maximum of 7.1 channels, so unless you're running a commercial sized theater, you'll drown yourself out pushing 14 individual speakers. Given the setup you just described, you'd be better off using the receiver as a pre-amplifier / surround processor, and use the 7.1 channel pre-outs to power your separate amplifier and powered subwoofer. This should provide you the cleanest and most dynamic surround experience given your gear. Stick with that, and don't use the built-in internal amplifiers for your receiver.

04-01-2009, 08:17 PM	#6
Opips2 Special Member Member since:Nov 2008 Location:Edmonton, AB Home Theater Gallery:6 Blu-ray collection:175 Blu-ray reviews:10 Trading Score:1	Thanks, I understand. I wish 14.1 speakers sound big awesome!!

04-01-2009, 08:18 PM	#7
Driver_King Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Tampa Bay, Florida Home Theater Gallery:96 Blu-ray collection:28 Trading Score:10	I read online about doing this on my receiver (the Onkyo 805). Someone contacted Onkyo and said that it makes no difference as the pre-outs are active all the time. The amp inside your receiver will not blow up if you want to do this.

04-01-2009, 08:57 PM	#11
Driver_King Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Tampa Bay, Florida Home Theater Gallery:96 Blu-ray collection:28 Trading Score:10	Link.

04-01-2009, 09:40 PM	#12
Big Daddy Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Southern California Home Theater Gallery:79 Blu-ray collection:122 Trading Score:1	An old geezer like me has been doing this for years. My system is 10.4. Since the front Def Techs have built-in 15" powered subs, I can make it 10.6. Maybe I should add more subwoofers than speakers and make it 10.12. Currently, I have the internal amp of the receiver run the Def Tech side surrounds and an external amplifier to power the PSB side surrounds. My Denon receiver actually supports 2 set of side surrounds. However, it warns against using low impedance speakers. The PSB speakers are 6 Ohm so I decided to use an external amp to drive them. One major problem with using 14.1 is phase cancellation between the speakers as they are not receiving different signals. Dolby PLIIz can do 9.1 discrete channels. I am sure they can extend that to 14.1. However, most people cannot even accomodate 5.1. Not everybody is crazy like us.

04-01-2009, 09:51 PM	#13
Sonny Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Aug 2007 Home Theater Gallery:8 Blu-ray reviews:6 Trading Score:1	I love it! What does the average theater have as far as number of speakers? "Guesstament"..? Does anyone work at a theater & know how many there's have? Thanks.

04-02-2009, 02:36 AM	#14
liquidice Mad Scientist Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Milwaukee Home Theater Gallery:43 Blu-ray collection:384 Blu-ray reviews:6	well I just took my daughter to Monsters vs Aliens today, and in my nature I spent the entire time till 'show time' looking around the theater. There were 5 speakers on the side walls, and two in the far back wall behind us, and for the center and subs I could not see those, but today was the first time in a theater that I thought to myself, "wow, that dialogue sounds unbelivable!!!". The bass was dramatic, and yet tight. I would guess a couple of 15" woofers for bass, in the front stage area. It did seem kind of directional, meaning I could tell the bass was coming from the front stage, which shouldn't happen. I'm sure most theaters run their subs at a pretty high gain for impact. I would be curious about exact specs of center channel though. This was a Carmike theater by-the-by. Defect of center was that I could tell alot of dialogue was being routed to the subwoofers.

04-02-2009, 03:30 AM	#15
randy8118 Member Member since:Nov 2007	Ah, but 22.2 is on it's way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22.2 Can anyone recommend a good Top-Back-Center speaker?

04-02-2009, 06:04 AM	#17
Squozen Senior Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Melbourne, Australia Home Theater Gallery:17 Blu-ray collection:80	A better idea is sticking to 7.1 and buying 7 good speakers, not 14 shitty ones, but that's just my opinion.

04-02-2009, 08:06 AM	#18
RiseDarthVader Power Member Member since:Sep 2008 Location:Australia Blu-ray collection:136	In our "VMAX" cinemas over here at Greater Union cinemas we have I think 15-20 speakers lining the side about 4 at the back and 3 behind the screen and 1 subwoofer behind the screen. Here is the subwoofer and speakers we use http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=52 http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=47 http://krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=64

04-02-2009, 08:16 AM	#19
liquidice Mad Scientist Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Milwaukee Home Theater Gallery:43 Blu-ray collection:384 Blu-ray reviews:6	wow, those are badass! When I worked at a pro-audio store years ago, we had two different subs in these huge bandpass box that were about the size of my Civic. One was 18", the other I think was 21". I only remember hooking them up once for demonstration, and at a higher volume, the shook the earth. Lots of fun.

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