Sony XBR4 and XBR5... in-store displays' horrible refresh issues - Blu-ray Forum

Zaphod · 09-18-2007, 03:28 AM

I was just wondering if anyone has the new Sony XBR4's or XBR5's. I have gone to 4 or 5 Circuit City's and all of the one's displayed have had a serious refresh issue. The TV's were hooked up directly to a PS3 and were running at 1080p via (everybody's favorite) a HDMI Monster Cable (Ultra THX 1000). They were showing POTC 1. While watching nothing more than the first scene as Jack Sparrow is coming in to Port Royale on his ship the background and even the main shot's where the camera pans across the ship docked in the port and those on the dock watching Jack come in was horribly blurred and ghosted. This continued throughout the movie as I watched it. This was also noticable in the sails of Jacks ship as they blew in the wind. I was so set on purchasing this TV then I watched that and was like wow this is really bad.

I was wondering if someone has seen this as well. It really detracted from the picture and all I could see was this flaw. After a few minutes it even started hurting my eyes. You would think that Sony would have seen this and done something about it before they produced them. Then they popped in Ant Bully and there was no problems there. Then they put in Casino Royale, and again the refresh issues! Argh!

Also the other thing I noticed was that the screen looked too good and the colors seemed a little too vivid. It was almost like I wasn't watching a movie (if that makes any sense). I don't know if it was the brightness of the panel but I didn't care for it at all.

BigRick · 09-18-2007, 03:36 AM

I Have The XBR4 and Have No Problems What So Ever. Do You Know If They Had The 24fps Function On?

CptGreedle · 09-18-2007, 03:42 AM

Ok. I can not say if that is a refresh issue or something to do with the film or the connections. It is possible it is not conected properly, happens quite often in stores (they are suppose to know and think they do but don't).
But as for the viid colors... this is typical of ALL TVs. In order to try to sell the TVs when standing side by side in a display in a store, the factories purposefully set the colors to be very bright and vivid, so the colors are exaggerated and pop out. I think it lookds bad.
NEVER judge a TV by the display model. If you want to see a good representation of the TV, go to a store that has a calibrated system. You can find these in places such as The Big Screen Store, Tweeters, even the Magnolia center in Best Buy. If you ask to see a calibrated/optimized systen or TV, they often have some in seperate rooms. These havethe colors properly adjusted by pros with special gadgets and will make the pictures look much much better. They also make sure everything is hooked up right.
So don't think the refresh rate is off, or the colors are bad... it's the set-up. I garuntee it will look fantastic in a calibrated set-up.

coolmilo · 09-18-2007, 03:44 AM

I have the 46 XBR4 and it is awesome. There are a bunch of settings for this LCD that when adjusted properly make the picture look sweeeeeeeeeet. There is a thread on AVSforum that discusses XBR4 calibration that's worth a look. I am very happy with my purchase.

I also examined the XBR4 at a CE store and they had the settings whacked and as a result the video had serious lag and other problems that go away when adjusted correctly.

The XBR4 has terrific reviews and is considered one of the best TV's on the planet.

BigRick · 09-18-2007, 03:45 AM

Yeah I Think The PS3 Is Not Set Up Right. Sony Has Released Quite A Couple Of Firmware Upgrades. So I Think Those PS3's Are Not Set To The Full Potential

daisuke149 · 09-18-2007, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I was just wondering if anyone has the new Sony XBR4's or XBR5's. I have gone to 4 or 5 Circuit City's and all of the one's displayed have had a serious refresh issue. The TV's were hooked up directly to a PS3 and were running at 1080p via (everybody's favorite) a HDMI Monster Cable (Ultra THX 1000). They were showing POTC 1. While watching nothing more than the first scene as Jack Sparrow is coming in to Port Royale on his ship the background and even the main shot's where the camera pans across the ship docked in the port and those on the dock watching Jack come in was horribly blurred and ghosted. This continued throughout the movie as I watched it. This was also noticable in the sails of Jacks ship as they blew in the wind. I was so set on purchasing this TV then I watched that and was like wow this is really bad.

I was wondering if someone has seen this as well. It really detracted from the picture and all I could see was this flaw. After a few minutes it even started hurting my eyes. You would think that Sony would have seen this and done something about it before they produced them. Then they popped in Ant Bully and there was no problems there. Then they put in Casino Royale, and again the refresh issues! Argh!

Also the other thing I noticed was that the screen looked too good and the colors seemed a little too vivid. It was almost like I wasn't watching a movie (if that makes any sense). I don't know if it was the brightness of the panel but I didn't care for it at all.

take this to heart. unless you personally know the person working at the store isnt a idiot. Dont ever trust an what you see or hear at a bestbuy or circuit city.

half the time their not setup correctly and the morons who work there try to make adjustments themselves making em worse. You should try at least going into the settings and reseting them and see what difference it makes if they were tampering with it.

CptGreedle · 09-18-2007, 03:50 AM

Also, on top of the fact that the system is not calibrated or optimized and possibly connected improperly, remember you are probably looking at content that is being displayed on about 20 other TVs at the same time. These is just begging for signal degradation and other issues. By splitting the signal so many ways, you are likely going to see compression error, delays in timing, softness, grainy images, pixelization, etc.
Look at the system else where. Never EVER buy a system in a store based on how it looks in the floor display.

Lopan · 09-18-2007, 03:59 AM

The XBR4 is on my to get list because it has the HDMI 1.3 now. The refresh rate is I think at 120hz so it can't be that bad right? Anyway, I really hope this tv has good reviews because it would really bring me down for I put off on the the XBR3 for the 4.

bluskiff · 09-18-2007, 04:36 AM

I have a 46 xbr2 when I got it it had clouding,flash lights and and the blacks sucked running the shit out of it for three weeks now it is like a completely different set. The blacks are way deeper they were kinda dark grey when I first got it. The tv is really breaking in nice to bad sony put a firmware update in it that is a kind of autodim to hide the clouding problems it used to have. Trying to watch starwars is nuts with every time the dark star sceens come on the set dims and then brightens when ships cross the screen. A real mess I have a 50sxrd coming to replace it. I wanted a xbr for so long and now I have to send it back.

doctorsteve · 09-18-2007, 04:47 AM

I googled xbr4 review, and a site that came up said that the xbr4 (like most of the new tvs) failed to detect the source and upconvert to 24fps. fyi

Footloose301 · 09-18-2007, 05:18 AM

My guess would be that they have had that PS3 there for awhile now and it has not yet had firmware updates! Almost guaranteed. I'm sure the tv is fine.

cawgijoe · 09-18-2007, 12:02 PM

Just like everyone here says.....you can't trust most of these stores when it comes to TV calibration and setup. Most will pull the TV out of the box, plug it in, connect the source, and "voila!".....picture. Done.

Some are better then others such as Magnolia and Tweeter, but don't count on Best Buy or Circuit City.

What you see in the store is not what you get at home.

Robmx · 09-18-2007, 12:40 PM

Good to hear that XBR4 are still good.... Im thinking of getting the 32" XBR4... I don't like that if I want 1080p I have to get a 40" or bigger.... I have a small place.... Does Sony not make a 32" 1080p because theres not a difference between 1080p and 1080i at that screen size? I know Sharp makes a 32" 1080p for a few hundred dollars cheaper... But I feel Sony is the best !

Horrorview · 09-18-2007, 01:24 PM

Like others have said here, it could (and most probably is) all very well be in the setup as these sets, out of the box, are terrible. I don't have the XBR, but I just purchased a new Sony KDL 46V3000 last Friday to replace my ailing Westinghouse LCD, and, at first, I was horrified. However, when you go through the settings of each picture mode, you'll see that all sorts of unnecessary gizmos are turned on (Noise Reduction, Black Corrector, Digital Enhancement, etc), all of which have a negative impact on image quality overall (especially DVD playback!). The sets are also set to incredibly high contrast, brightness, and color saturation so that they stand out in the store, but, when you get the damned things home, it's like staring into the sun!!!

If I could have afforded the XBR, I'd have gotten one, but the V3000 had some nifty specs, too (HDMI 1.3, 24fps Theater Mode, PIP - although not true Picture in picture, it actually splits the screen between two devices) for the price.

sakbarzad · 09-20-2007, 06:48 PM

that is a known issue if you set the cinemotion and the motion flow too high... what i have found to be the best balance is turn motion flow on high and cinemotion off for all 1080p signals...

john_1958 · 09-20-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I was just wondering if anyone has the new Sony XBR4's or XBR5's. I have gone to 4 or 5 Circuit City's and all of the one's displayed have had a serious refresh issue. The TV's were hooked up directly to a PS3 and were running at 1080p via (everybody's favorite) a HDMI Monster Cable (Ultra THX 1000). They were showing POTC 1. While watching nothing more than the first scene as Jack Sparrow is coming in to Port Royale on his ship the background and even the main shot's where the camera pans across the ship docked in the port and those on the dock watching Jack come in was horribly blurred and ghosted. This continued throughout the movie as I watched it. This was also noticable in the sails of Jacks ship as they blew in the wind. I was so set on purchasing this TV then I watched that and was like wow this is really bad.

I was wondering if someone has seen this as well. It really detracted from the picture and all I could see was this flaw. After a few minutes it even started hurting my eyes. You would think that Sony would have seen this and done something about it before they produced them. Then they popped in Ant Bully and there was no problems there. Then they put in Casino Royale, and again the refresh issues! Argh!

Also the other thing I noticed was that the screen looked too good and the colors seemed a little too vivid. It was almost like I wasn't watching a movie (if that makes any sense). I don't know if it was the brightness of the panel but I didn't care for it at all.

I still would buy xbr4 or 5
vivid colours are what makes set look great even if you toned down

stores never have tvs configured to tvs true potential

but i liked the bravia promothat i saw in sony store

Mosman22 · 09-29-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorsteve

I googled xbr4 review, and a site that came up said that the xbr4 (like most of the new tvs) failed to detect the source and upconvert to 24fps. fyi

I wrote this on another forum on highdefdigest but i think it applies here. I own the tv and it is amazing. The following is what i wrote in a 1080/24p forum

I actually own the xbr 4 and the ps3 and 1080p/24 looks amazing. I doesn't screw up 1080i broadcast like someone mentioned earlier b/c it only displays 1080p/24 when the source outputs 1080p/24.

I also have a problem with the hd guru's review. I haven't noticed any atifacts or unatural judder when watching a bd on the ps3 at 1080p/24, with montion enhancer set to off, and cinemotion set to auto 1. maybe he didn't try this setting or maybe he made the same mistake that the cnet editor, David Katzmaier , did when he first posted his review for the 46' xbr 4.
"on 9/27/07, we mentioned a test involving the HQV Blu-ray disc that criticized the appearance of 1080p/24 sources. That test was incorrect, and as a result we see no reason to avoid using 1080p/24 mode with film-based sources on the Sony KDL-46XBR4. We updated the review on 9/28/07."

Also the hd guru said he used the 1080i hqv disc as the basis of his test of the xbr 4's 1080p/24 ablity. This was the cnet reviewers response when he was questioned about the same practice "As for your second question about 1080p/24, you are correct. I was wrong to use HQV, a 1080i/30 source, to evaluate 1080p/24 performance, and I have updated the review to remove that test and explain the mistake."

From what i have read of the hd gurus review he didn't mention tweaking drc, motion enchancer , noise reducer or cinemotion, all of which could have led to flawed test results . the David Katzmaier specifically cites this. ". DRC did matter during the 2:3 pulldown test; the set passed when we turned DRC off but failed when we engaged it, leaving those telltale curved lines of moire in the grandstands behind the racecar. "

So if you ask me 1080p/24 does make a difference and this is coming personal experience, the xbr4 excels with flying colors. The way this tv handles motion is truly amazing. When displaying 1080p/24 the true brilliance of this tv comes to light. I get the impression alot of home theatre enthusiasts have a pre -concieved contempt of any lcd tv. Where in the past this was justified the xbr4/5 is starting to buck that trend

bdrex28 · 09-29-2007, 10:28 PM

XBR5's aren't out yet.

It's been pushed back from this Fall to early 2008.

john_1958 · 10-01-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cawgijoe

Just like everyone here says.....you can't trust most of these stores when it comes to TV calibration and setup. Most will pull the TV out of the box, plug it in, connect the source, and "voila!".....picture. Done.

Some are better then others such as Magnolia and Tweeter, but don't count on Best Buy or Circuit City.

What you see in the store is not what you get at home.

I've noticed they drain HD right out of the TV as well as color, and turn all features off

and at 120 herts XB4 is great for fast action viewing

john_1958 · 10-02-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I was just wondering if anyone has the new Sony XBR4's or XBR5's. I have gone to 4 or 5 Circuit City's and all of the one's displayed have had a serious refresh issue. The TV's were hooked up directly to a PS3 and were running at 1080p via (everybody's favorite) a HDMI Monster Cable (Ultra THX 1000). They were showing POTC 1. While watching nothing more than the first scene as Jack Sparrow is coming in to Port Royale on his ship the background and even the main shot's where the camera pans across the ship docked in the port and those on the dock watching Jack come in was horribly blurred and ghosted. This continued throughout the movie as I watched it. This was also noticable in the sails of Jacks ship as they blew in the wind. I was so set on purchasing this TV then I watched that and was like wow this is really bad.

I was wondering if someone has seen this as well. It really detracted from the picture and all I could see was this flaw. After a few minutes it even started hurting my eyes. You would think that Sony would have seen this and done something about it before they produced them. Then they popped in Ant Bully and there was no problems there. Then they put in Casino Royale, and again the refresh issues! Argh!

Also the other thing I noticed was that the screen looked too good and the colors seemed a little too vivid. It was almost like I wasn't watching a movie (if that makes any sense). I don't know if it was the brightness of the panel but I didn't care for it at all.

no you are not making any sense
they probulay got bad cables and worse settings because i saw casino royale and pirates there was no problem

vivid colors look great especially when reconfigured

09-18-2007, 03:28 AM	#1
Zaphod Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2007 Location:A small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse. Blu-ray collection:350 Trading Score:4	Sony XBR4 and XBR5... in-store displays' horrible refresh issues I was just wondering if anyone has the new Sony XBR4's or XBR5's. I have gone to 4 or 5 Circuit City's and all of the one's displayed have had a serious refresh issue. The TV's were hooked up directly to a PS3 and were running at 1080p via (everybody's favorite) a HDMI Monster Cable (Ultra THX 1000). They were showing POTC 1. While watching nothing more than the first scene as Jack Sparrow is coming in to Port Royale on his ship the background and even the main shot's where the camera pans across the ship docked in the port and those on the dock watching Jack come in was horribly blurred and ghosted. This continued throughout the movie as I watched it. This was also noticable in the sails of Jacks ship as they blew in the wind. I was so set on purchasing this TV then I watched that and was like wow this is really bad. I was wondering if someone has seen this as well. It really detracted from the picture and all I could see was this flaw. After a few minutes it even started hurting my eyes. You would think that Sony would have seen this and done something about it before they produced them. Then they popped in Ant Bully and there was no problems there. Then they put in Casino Royale, and again the refresh issues! Argh! Also the other thing I noticed was that the screen looked too good and the colors seemed a little too vivid. It was almost like I wasn't watching a movie (if that makes any sense). I don't know if it was the brightness of the panel but I didn't care for it at all. Last edited by Zaphod; 09-18-2007 at 03:37 AM.

09-18-2007, 04:36 AM	#9
bluskiff Expert Member Member since:Jul 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 23	I have a 46 xbr2 when I got it it had clouding,flash lights and and the blacks sucked running the shit out of it for three weeks now it is like a completely different set. The blacks are way deeper they were kinda dark grey when I first got it. The tv is really breaking in nice to bad sony put a firmware update in it that is a kind of autodim to hide the clouding problems it used to have. Trying to watch starwars is nuts with every time the dark star sceens come on the set dims and then brightens when ships cross the screen. A real mess I have a 50sxrd coming to replace it. I wanted a xbr for so long and now I have to send it back. Last edited by bluskiff; 09-18-2007 at 04:38 AM.

09-18-2007, 04:47 AM	#10
doctorsteve Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2007 Location:Tonawanda, NY Home Theater Gallery:15 Blu-ray collection:188 Blu-ray reviews:16	fault w/ xbr4 I googled xbr4 review, and a site that came up said that the xbr4 (like most of the new tvs) failed to detect the source and upconvert to 24fps. fyi

09-18-2007, 12:40 PM	#13
Robmx Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Niagara, Ontario, Canada	Good to hear that XBR4 are still good.... Im thinking of getting the 32" XBR4... I don't like that if I want 1080p I have to get a 40" or bigger.... I have a small place.... Does Sony not make a 32" 1080p because theres not a difference between 1080p and 1080i at that screen size? I know Sharp makes a 32" 1080p for a few hundred dollars cheaper... But I feel Sony is the best ! Last edited by Robmx; 09-18-2007 at 12:43 PM.

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09-18-2007, 03:36 AM	#2
BigRick Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:ANAHEIM, CA Trading Score:3	I Have The XBR4 and Have No Problems What So Ever. Do You Know If They Had The 24fps Function On?

09-18-2007, 03:42 AM	#3
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Ok. I can not say if that is a refresh issue or something to do with the film or the connections. It is possible it is not conected properly, happens quite often in stores (they are suppose to know and think they do but don't). But as for the viid colors... this is typical of ALL TVs. In order to try to sell the TVs when standing side by side in a display in a store, the factories purposefully set the colors to be very bright and vivid, so the colors are exaggerated and pop out. I think it lookds bad. NEVER judge a TV by the display model. If you want to see a good representation of the TV, go to a store that has a calibrated system. You can find these in places such as The Big Screen Store, Tweeters, even the Magnolia center in Best Buy. If you ask to see a calibrated/optimized systen or TV, they often have some in seperate rooms. These havethe colors properly adjusted by pros with special gadgets and will make the pictures look much much better. They also make sure everything is hooked up right. So don't think the refresh rate is off, or the colors are bad... it's the set-up. I garuntee it will look fantastic in a calibrated set-up.

09-18-2007, 03:44 AM	#4
coolmilo Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Silicon Valley Home Theater Gallery:16 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:2	I have the 46 XBR4 and it is awesome. There are a bunch of settings for this LCD that when adjusted properly make the picture look sweeeeeeeeeet. There is a thread on AVSforum that discusses XBR4 calibration that's worth a look. I am very happy with my purchase. I also examined the XBR4 at a CE store and they had the settings whacked and as a result the video had serious lag and other problems that go away when adjusted correctly. The XBR4 has terrific reviews and is considered one of the best TV's on the planet.

09-18-2007, 03:45 AM	#5
BigRick Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:ANAHEIM, CA Trading Score:3	Yeah I Think The PS3 Is Not Set Up Right. Sony Has Released Quite A Couple Of Firmware Upgrades. So I Think Those PS3's Are Not Set To The Full Potential

09-18-2007, 03:50 AM	#7
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Also, on top of the fact that the system is not calibrated or optimized and possibly connected improperly, remember you are probably looking at content that is being displayed on about 20 other TVs at the same time. These is just begging for signal degradation and other issues. By splitting the signal so many ways, you are likely going to see compression error, delays in timing, softness, grainy images, pixelization, etc. Look at the system else where. Never EVER buy a system in a store based on how it looks in the floor display.

09-18-2007, 03:59 AM	#8
Lopan Special Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Planet Earth Home Theater Gallery:9 4K collection:161 Blu-ray collection:694 DVD collection:22 Blu-ray reviews: 5	The XBR4 is on my to get list because it has the HDMI 1.3 now. The refresh rate is I think at 120hz so it can't be that bad right? Anyway, I really hope this tv has good reviews because it would really bring me down for I put off on the the XBR3 for the 4.

09-18-2007, 05:18 AM	#11
Footloose301 Special Member Member since:May 2007 Location:Fort Myers, FL Home Theater Gallery:38 4K collection:2 Blu-ray collection:2 Blu-ray reviews: 1	My guess would be that they have had that PS3 there for awhile now and it has not yet had firmware updates! Almost guaranteed. I'm sure the tv is fine.

09-18-2007, 12:02 PM	#12
cawgijoe Special Member Member since:Feb 2007 Trading Score:1	Just like everyone here says.....you can't trust most of these stores when it comes to TV calibration and setup. Most will pull the TV out of the box, plug it in, connect the source, and "voila!".....picture. Done. Some are better then others such as Magnolia and Tweeter, but don't count on Best Buy or Circuit City. What you see in the store is not what you get at home.

09-18-2007, 01:24 PM	#14
Horrorview Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Massachusetts	Like others have said here, it could (and most probably is) all very well be in the setup as these sets, out of the box, are terrible. I don't have the XBR, but I just purchased a new Sony KDL 46V3000 last Friday to replace my ailing Westinghouse LCD, and, at first, I was horrified. However, when you go through the settings of each picture mode, you'll see that all sorts of unnecessary gizmos are turned on (Noise Reduction, Black Corrector, Digital Enhancement, etc), all of which have a negative impact on image quality overall (especially DVD playback!). The sets are also set to incredibly high contrast, brightness, and color saturation so that they stand out in the store, but, when you get the damned things home, it's like staring into the sun!!! If I could have afforded the XBR, I'd have gotten one, but the V3000 had some nifty specs, too (HDMI 1.3, 24fps Theater Mode, PIP - although not true Picture in picture, it actually splits the screen between two devices) for the price.

09-20-2007, 06:48 PM	#15
sakbarzad Active Member Member since:Jan 2007 4K collection:2 Blu-ray collection:4	that is a known issue if you set the cinemotion and the motion flow too high... what i have found to be the best balance is turn motion flow on high and cinemotion off for all 1080p signals...

09-29-2007, 10:28 PM	#18
bdrex28 Senior Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Edmond, OK Blu-ray reviews:4	XBR5's aren't out yet. It's been pushed back from this Fall to early 2008.

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