Jack Kirby’s Estate Sues to Regain Copyright Control of Iron Man, Thor, others

[GreenScar]

In the coulda seen this one coming department...

Hot on the heels of the lawsuit filed by Jerry Seigel’s estate to reclaim ownership of Superman, the Jack Kirby estate is suing many companies — Marvel, Disney, Sony, Universal, 20th Century Fox, Paramount and others — to reclaim copyright ownership of characters created and co-created by Kirby. That’s a big roster: the Fantastic Four, Captain America, the X-Men, Iron Man, Thor and many others. Lawsuits like these aren’t uncommon, but there’s one ingredient that could make this one more likely to have long-term effects: it is being litigated by the lawyer who successfully won some Superman rights for the Seigel estate.

BleedingCool (via Nikki Finke) is reporting the news. The report says that:

Marc Toberoff, described by Finke as the “bane of big media,” is the lawyer arguing for Kirby’s estate. The payoff here, if the argument is found to have merit, would be that Marvel/Disney would retain the character trademarks, but Kirby’s family would negotiate new financial terms for the exploitation of his characters.

Kirby’s work has been a source of contention for years. His classic stories and characters were largely all created under implied work-for-hire arrangements. That is, he owned no rights to his creations. In 1978, copyright laws changed, and required all work-for-hire arrangements to be specifically controlled by contract. Kirby refused to sign Marvel’s, and left the company.

In the mid-’80s, Marvel was under pressure to return original artwork from the ’60s and ’70s to the artists, and Kirby’s art became a particular sticking point. (Artists could sell their original pages, generating significant extra income.) He refused to sign the contracts offered by Marvel, and the battle over his art became the greatest public spectacle in the comics world at the time. In 1987 Marvel returned around 1,900 pages of art to Kirby, less than a quarter of his output. (The Comics Journal has a much more in-depth report of this situation.)

Even at that point Kirby was arguing for creator-owned rights within the comics industry, and that argument had long repercussions. The formation of Image Comics, for example, was directly influenced by Kirby’s battle with Marvel. Kirby’s fight for copyright ownership began during this period as well, but as comic writer and Kirby friend Mark Evanier said (quoted in that Comics Journal piece), Kirby “had decided in the early 1970s that, financially and emotionally, the copyright issue was not a fight he was prepared to fight.”

[GreenScar]

if the argument is found to have merit, would be that Marvel/Disney would retain the character trademarks, but Kirby’s family would negotiate new financial terms for the exploitation of his characters.

Sounds more like they want more say in the characters usage (and get more money out of them). I wonder if this could be used as a loophole in the movie right contracts back into the hands of Marvel Studios (probably for some financial compensation to the other studios).

[Diesel]

The Seigels get Superman, and now everyone is going to want their daddy's, brother's, uncle's, etc. characters returned to the families so that they can negotiate for more $$$. Not surprising one bit.

Originally Posted by GreenScar

Sounds more like they want more say in the characters usage (and get more money out of them). I wonder if this could be used as a loophole in the movie right contracts back into the hands of Marvel Studios (probably for some financial compensation to the other studios).

Possibly, possibly.

[Afrobean]

I was under the impression that the Siegels were able to win because Superman had been created OUTSIDE of the company's hired work, prior to the two creators even beginning work at the comic company. I don't imagine Kirby designed ANY of these characters other than because the company he worked for said to.

Furthermore, he was merely the artist of many of these characters, designing them under the instruction of the writer. Why should he get ownership of the character for designing what they look like, particularly in cases where the appearance isn't exactly the same in modern portrayals anymore.

[McGarnigal]

I wonder if Bill Finger's estate will be next.. but its ironclad he sold off his credit to Bob Kane...

[SlmShdy1]

People are too damn greedy. He's already got tons of money.

[doctorD]

The thing is how can they get the rights to most of those characters since Stan Lee either created or co-created those characters. He would have to forfeit his rights over to them in order for that to happen.

Interesting read though.

[thunderforce]

I just hope it dont mess up any of the movies that are coming up.

[Darkhawk9587]

Originally Posted by SlmShdy1

People are too damn greedy. He's already got tons of money.

+1 This is just plain stupid IMO. In-laws just leeching off of a great man's creations. This disgusts me.

[Moefiz]

I guess with Disney purchasing Marvel, the pot just got bigger...

Its a shame really, Jack Kirby and Stan Lee created these characters and after so many years these characters are still popular.The family should be proud.

[kernel_thai]

Maybe the Scandinavians will sue the Kirby estate for stealing Thor. Damn Vikings should have raped and pillaged less and copyrighted more.

[Adhamhnon]

The case has no merit because of work for hire. The Siegel estate won only because Superman was created before DC comics employed him. This is a clear case of a pure money grab by the estate, and unless the law is changed, will fall flat on its face in court.

Nevermind the fact that Stan Lee would have at minimum an equal ownership of the characters, and possibly more, since as the writer he owns the concept of the character, the artist would only own the specific visualizations.

[Wdm81]

for most characters the case won't hold up as Kirby didn't create them or if he did, he did for marvel and therefore they own the rights, you could argue that Kirby created the images but even then it's property of marvel comics and Kirby was already paid for his work. The issue with superman is that seigal/shuster creted him out side of DC and sold him to DC for a very low price. The families feel and legally were apparently right that the deal was a scam and DC doesn't own all the rights to him

I may be wrong but Captain america might be an issue, i read somewhere that kirby created him outside of Marvel comics, The Cap might be a similar issue with sup[erman

[Sylin]

Originally Posted by Wdm81

for most characters the case won't hold up as Kirby didn't create them or if he did, he did for marvel and therefore they own the rights, you could argue that Kirby created the images but even then it's property of marvel comics and Kirby was already paid for his work.

^^^ This.

Unless the family has a copy of an employment contract that specifies Kirby retained some type of ownership, this is all frivolous.

This sounds more like a case of the Kirby grandkids didn't get good jobs after graduating college, saw the Superman lawsuit, and thought it would be a good way to cash in. After all, you don't need to win a legal battle these days--you just need to posture enough until an agreeable settlement is offered.

It's also why we need an overhaul concerning "statute of limitations" for stuff like this. In so many other areas, failure to act, or waiting to act until after something becomes financially lucrative, negates any claims.

If that's the case, I should start digging through birth records to find my lineage to Jesus so I can get a cut of every Bible ever sold.

[Wdm81]

Originally Posted by Sylin

^^^ This.

Unless the family has a copy of an employment contract that specifies Kirby retained some type of ownership, this is all frivolous.

This sounds more like a case of the Kirby grandkids didn't get good jobs after graduating college, saw the Superman lawsuit, and thought it would be a good way to cash in. After all, you don't need to win a legal battle these days--you just need to posture enough until an agreeable settlement is offered.

It's also why we need an overhaul concerning "statute of limitations" for stuff like this. In so many other areas, failure to act, or waiting to act until after something becomes financially lucrative, negates any claims.

If that's the case, I should start digging through birth records to find my lineage to Jesus so I can get a cut of every Bible ever sold.

More like they saw the Superman case then learned that Disney bought Marvel..then decided to try and cash in

and good luck with your jesus lawsuit, i actually recently found out that the caveman that invented fire was my distant cousin, i demand a 10 percent payment for every fire ever started...it's only fair

[Sylin]

Originally Posted by Wdm81

and good luck with your jesus lawsuit, i actually recently found out that the caveman that invented fire was my distant cousin, i demand a 10 percent payment for every fire ever started...it's only fair

California owes you, big time.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by Sylin

If that's the case, I should start digging through birth records to find my lineage to Jesus so I can get a cut of every Bible ever sold.

Funny story associated with this:

A friend of mine used to manage a book store, and the top stolen book of all time in that book store was... you guessed it... the bible.

Logan

[Diesel]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Funny story associated with this:

A friend of mine used to manage a book store, and the top stolen book of all time in that book store was... you guessed it... the bible.

Logan

The ultimate irony....

[Wdm81]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Funny story associated with this:

A friend of mine used to manage a book store, and the top stolen book of all time in that book store was... you guessed it... the bible.

Logan

Haha, we used to get some wacko in our neighbourhood that gave out bibles every Halloween

One year about 15 people in the neighbourhood gathered all of them, put them in a bag, placed the bag on his front porch at 3 am, lit the bag on fire, rang his doorbell and ran away and hid...oh man, the look on his face when he came out to see what was buring was hillarious, then he handed out a flyer the next day saying he wasn't angry with who ever did it but he prayed for their souls because God was angry with them

he died like a month later, now some family with a really hot daughter lives there

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

Funny story associated with this:

A friend of mine used to manage a book store, and the top stolen book of all time in that book store was... you guessed it... the bible.

Logan

No surprise there I guess