Next Gen Consoles

[phranctoast]

Couple of Quick questions about people ideas for next gen consoles.

-Will the next gen consoles be Digital Distribution only, Physical media or both

-Would MS incorporate Blu Ray tech into the next console. Why or why not?

[Monk360]

No to digital distribution only. Sony tried it with PSP Go and it failed miserably.

No to Microsoft ever using a Blu-Ray drive; they might as well start making PlayStation games.

My prediction for the next gen consoles: PS4 and Xbox 720 will take a page out of Nintendo/Apple's book and be minor upgrades over the current platforms; Move and Kinect will be standard controllers.

[LIONSFAN20]

Heres another question, will we see the same upgrade in graphics that we saw this last time around? Going from PS2 graphics to PS3 graphics. How big of a change will we see from PS3 to PS4?

[Monk360]

I don't think so...if anything we'll see an increase in horsepower that will allow for PS3-style visuals in 3D at higher resolutions/framerates (read: native 1080p at 60fps in 3D).

Of course, I didn't think they could improve much over last gen's graphics, either.

[Monkey]

I'd be surprise if MS doesn't go with blu-ray or perhaps another proprietary format drive. The 360 was the first console in the history of gaming to not advance in its storage medium from its predecessor and it has led to games having content removed, etc. If they stick with DVD again it would be shocking.

[Monk360]

I think that MS could easily stick with DVD (as it'll help keep the cost of the system down). Besides, more and more games are either getting shorter or more episodic in nature. I think that games like Alan Wake will become the norm. On the other hand, the only games for the 360 that need more than a DVDs worth of space are RPGs...and I can easily see developers replacing pre-rendered cutscenes with in-game engine cutscenes to help conserve space.

[brettallica]

I could see the next generation of consoles figuring out a way to make games a little more "portable" in that you will be able to use the physical medium much in the same way as you did back in the days of cartridges, where when you played a game, your data and progress were stored on the game itself; i.e. not solely tied to a user account in the console. It would make it so you could bring a game to a friend's house (for example), and play the game where you left off. The whole idea of console-restricted profiles being used to handle this has been my #1 peeve with disc-based games — with the slow load times right behind.

I've already got ideas on how this can be done, and they're super-basic implementations. My ideas would also make pirating/copying of the media more difficult. With flash and SSD storage becoming so cheap, it would be very easy to do; the manufacturing and reproduction costs might be a tad higher, though. My guess, however, is that game technology in general is getting cheaper, so the overall costs might offset each other. Utlizing a medium like flash/SSD could also potentially virtually eliminate load times (think cached data).

[ChadFL]

Originally Posted by phranctoast

Couple of Quick questions about people ideas for next gen consoles.

-Will the next gen consoles be Digital Distribution only, Physical media or both

-Would MS incorporate Blu Ray tech into the next console. Why or why not?

Digital distribution has always been overrated. It may continue to grow but will never overtake physical media for the simple reason that people like having stuff. Heck, look at the community galleries people post on this website. It's a celebration of excess.

[Nerdkiller likes BD]

Digital distribution: Theres still too many people who's broadband connection is too slow for the job. I mean, how long would it take for a game like Final Fantasy XIII to download on a 2Mb connection?

MS using BD: I think that MS would actually utillise their own proprietary disc format for physical media. They know they're not dumb enough to go digital only.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Monk360

I think that MS could easily stick with DVD (as it'll help keep the cost of the system down). Besides, more and more games are either getting shorter or more episodic in nature. I think that games like Alan Wake will become the norm. On the other hand, the only games for the 360 that need more than a DVDs worth of space are RPGs...and I can easily see developers replacing pre-rendered cutscenes with in-game engine cutscenes to help conserve space.

Definitely not just RPG's. Content was left out of DOA4, PGR4 and some others due to limited space.

[krazeyeyez]

Keep in mind compression technology continues to advance, lossless techniques etc... that list of games that have been "short changed" due to dvd size is not a large one. You can also use multiple discs if necessary which is no big deal.

It would be nice for them to add a blu-ray drive, especially if they allow it to play movies unlike nintendo that shuts down that feature. At the same time that would also increase cost.

All and all i could care less what the media used to deliver the game is as long as the game itself is solid. The native 1080p games have been less then impressive to me although that tends to do more with frame rate drops then anything i suppose. I for one would choose innovation and game play over shiny graphics and lossless sound any day. I know i have plenty of fun on the WII and that lets face it does not look good on an hdtv.

EDIT: breezed over this but i hope NO on digital downloads, the licensing scheme on that is a nightmare waiting to happen. I have been on the phone with MS360 about 10 times over the past month and they have yet to fix/allow me to access the $300 plus of tv shows i have purchased. In fact there trouble shooting disabled the shows that actually were working for me. If this is any indication on how the games digital license would be handled i say no thanks.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by phranctoast

Couple of Quick questions about people ideas for next gen consoles.

-Will the next gen consoles be Digital Distribution only, Physical media or both

-Would MS incorporate Blu Ray tech into the next console. Why or why not?

No as it would limit the customer base significantly, and yes as the space is already neaded. Note, they could also opt for multiple discs final fantasy XIII stlye or mandatory installs.

[BluStation 3]

I would like to see the next generation of consoles become more upgrade friendly, similar to PC gaming. We should be able to upgrade the Ram and GPU if we like and run games at any resolution we desire. Also 60fps and 4xMSAA minimum would be nice.

[SlaughterX]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Definitely not just RPG's. Content was left out of DOA4, PGR4 and some others due to limited space.

What was cut out of DoA4? I've never heard of anything like that.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by BluStation 3

I would like to see the next generation of consoles become more upgrade friendly, similar to PC gaming. We should be able to upgrade the Ram and GPU if we like and run games at any resolution we desire. Also 60fps and 4xMSAA minimum would be nice.

MS will never allow that. Just look at the 360 and how they police every little thing users do with it. Something so trivial as adding cooloing fans or cosmetic LEDs to the console can (and has) led to bans of both the Gamertag & the console itself. Look at the difference between MS & Sony when it comes to modding their machines. MS manufactures it's own, custom-fit HDD for the 360, then sells it at way higher than the standard going-rate prices for HDD space. On the other hand, Sony gives instructions on how to install bigger HDDs in their PS3. MS does this under the banner of not allowing anyone to have an unfair advantage on LIVE. How exactly does having a console lit up with LEDs constitute an unfair advantage? MS wants complete control over their machines, even after someone has bought & paid for the damn thing. Unless something drastic happens, MS will not give up control of what users can & cannot do to "their" machines.

Personally, if/when games go download only, I will stop playing. I'm not paying for anything that I can't hold in my hand. What happens when the material in question is no longer available & you (for whatever reason) need to redownload it? Just look at games from a couple of generations ago that are no longer manufactured. I can still grab one off my shelf & play it. If my console breaks down, I can find a replacement & still play the game. Do you think developers (if they're even still around in a couple of generations) are going to keep old titles that don't sell much up on their servers? The fact is with DL only, the consumer isn't purchasing anything (in the end) other than the intellectual aspect of the product. Once they stop offering it for purchase, you no longer have access to it unless everything associated with your copy (the machine, the HDD, etc, etc) remains intact & in working order. Say your Gamertag is banned from Live. The way it's set up now, your access to your DL'd material is completely cut off. No huge deal for an avatar item that cost $1 (though it's still wrong), but what happens when you've lost access to 100 games that cost you $60 apiece? You'd better hope your MS console never fails (ROTFLMAO).

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by SlaughterX

What was cut out of DoA4? I've never heard of anything like that.

I can't find the other link but I think a snow level was removed.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/699/699152p1.html

One area of DOA4's development that caused problems for Team Ninja was disk space. Team Ninja filled up the entire disk for its first Xbox 360 title, and even had to make adjustments as reports came in daily of having reached the final few megabytes of space. This isn't a problem with DOAX2, as the team is keeping a close eye on space as they work

http://www.bizarrecreations.com/foru...p?f=30&t=14802

You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city. For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy.

Ben

[arcadeforest]

Originally Posted by phranctoast

Couple of Quick questions about people ideas for next gen consoles.

-Will the next gen consoles be Digital Distribution only, Physical media or both

-Would MS incorporate Blu Ray tech into the next console. Why or why not?

I think the game developers would love some sort of protected digital distribution system to cut back on the used game market. Do not seeing it happing anytime soon but will grow the farther into the future we get.

I would say no to bluray also. They could always use HDDVD if they are looking to increase disc storage, I'm sure toshibia or whoever would be willing to work with them.

[partridge]

There's one BIG difference between the future strategies of MS and Sony.

MS are on record saying that the disc is dead ("blu-ray has been bypassed" and digital downloads are the future). So their next console, if they practice what they preach MUST be digital downloads only. But I can't honestly see them doing that (they can argue as much as they want about a download future, but the global infrastructure is nowhere near ready to support such a vision), so they have painted themselves into a corner. They will never support blu-ray which means that their next console will continue to use DVD or they will come up with a new proprietary disc system.

If they stick with DVD this will severely restrict what they can do with the 360 successor.

Meanwhile Sony, full supporters of blu-ray, will release a blu-ray driven console allowing them to offer gamers uncompressed audio and video in 1080p HD; This will be the step up from PS3; all games will be 1080p with massive draw distances and huge detail, etc. If 3D has taken off then games will also support that too.

The next gen will be "more of the same, but better" though I worry that MS have already planted flags in the ground about certain technologies that will mean their next console will be restricted in what it can offer. MS are about control, they want DD to succeed to maximise their profits and control. Because Sony support disc based content, that's not such a big deal for them.

We've seen the poor response to the PSPgo, MS can't seriously release a full sized home console that is DD only, so as I suggest above, it will have to support DVD or they'll come up with their own version of blu-ray for games!

I'll be interested to see if the new Wii supports blu-ray.

MS have some tricky decisions to make, so it's no wonder they are pushing the story that Kinect adds years to the 360's lifespan; I would imagine they are in no hurry to make a new console!

[phranctoast]

I don't really think it matters one way or another what MS said. They were anti blu ray because the PS3 had it so they had to downplay it and make it look like the 360 lacking it was not a weakness.

They made a strong stance to DD, but I agree..The infrastructure is not going to be ready for a DD only console next gen.

DVD's limitations have already been shown this gen. Imagine how that will be next gen.

I'm under the impression they will need more space. That leaves Blu Ray as the only viable method. Besides that, the Blu Ray format won the HD format war and it is the undisputed HD physical media (PM) choice.

If MS uses a proprietary format for it's games, I still have to assume that their Next Box will be able to play Blu Ray movies, as it's established as the only available HD PM option.

They shouldn't be holding a grudge at all. Hell...even Toshiba makes Blu Ray players.

I'd be happier if the BDA tells MS no, they can't use the format.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by phranctoast

I'd be happier if the BDA tells MS no, they can't use the format.

BDA won't do that; Blu-ray is a near-open format like DVD.

Incidentally, should this thread be moved out the Gaming general forum?