Monsoon Wedding (2001)

[bugsnest]

Any interest in the "Monsoon Wedding" Criterion BD release? Not sure if it's considered arty-farty since "Sivaji" is the benchmark here

But jokes apart, any of the "insiders" here seen the BD preview? Just curious what your thoughts are ... I am tempted to buy it next week when it releases for all the extras the disc has (documentaries)
...but from the review on Blu-Ray.com and the Criterion forum the transfer is supposed to be only average... Would love to hear what others think...

[vveksuvarna]

Originally Posted by bugsnest

Any interest in the "Monsoon Wedding" Criterion BD release? Not sure if it's considered arty-farty since "Sivaji" is the benchmark here

But jokes apart, any of the "insiders" here seen the BD preview? Just curious what your thoughts are ... I am tempted to buy it next week when it releases for all the extras the disc has (documentaries)
...but from the review on Blu-Ray.com and the Criterion forum the transfer is supposed to be only average... Would love to hear what others think...

it is the most pristine version of the film available in the market. the quality may not be as clean as the some of the newer films.

but considering it was shot on 16mm & blown up to 35mm, that itself leads to a lot of video artifacts.

but criterions restoration team is one of the best in the world & they have the highest quality control for all their transfers.

also the transfer was approved by meera nair for its accuracy.

and no DNR/EE like sivaji.

[GoodToGo]

The blu-ray.com review says that it is a pretty decent transfer. Even the audio is not bad. However, it gets a major thumbs down from me for being region locked

[vveksuvarna]

all criterions are region locked, since they only hold the rights for united states release.

you have to realise, criterion was started as an independant company, even though they are big now, they arent as big as the major hollywood studios who can afford to own the rights to their films in all countries.

[GoodToGo]

Originally Posted by vveksuvarna

all criterions are region locked, since they only hold the rights for united states release.

you have to realise, criterion was started as an independant company, even though they are big now, they arent as big as the major hollywood studios who can afford to own the rights to their films in all countries.

Even if you are saying is right, the decision is not a sound one. In USA, many NRI's will buy this blu-ray along with a smattering of other people. However, if it had been region unlocked many people like me (or online stores) would have imported it and that would have helped criterion realize a huge profit. You have to deliver to your target audience and Criterion missed the train big time.

[vveksuvarna]

the point of region locking is to prevent foreign sales & piracy.

if everyone imported from criterion, then it would be a loss for whoever owns the rights to monsoon wedding in india.

[OrlandoEastwood]

Originally Posted by vveksuvarna

the point of region locking is to prevent foreign sales & piracy.

if everyone imported from criterion, then it would be a loss for whoever owns the rights to monsoon wedding in india.

Yeah, studios hate that. But, hey, if I can get a movie for a good price with shipping from another country, I'll give them my money. Either way, I am still getting a legal copy. If you want a region locked movie, you'll have to get a region free player. I did that with DVDs. I'll import foreign films that have not been released in the US from Thailand.

[vveksuvarna]

Originally Posted by OrlandoEastwood

Yeah, studios hate that. But, hey, if I can get a movie for a good price with shipping from another country, I'll give them my money. Either way, I am still getting a legal copy. If you want a region locked movie, you'll have to get a region free player. I did that with DVDs. I'll import foreign films that have not been released in the US from Thailand.

i doubt there are region free bluray players.

i had heard rumors of unlocking players, but the next firmware would lock the device shut. so im not risking that.

[GoodToGo]

Originally Posted by vveksuvarna

the point of region locking is to prevent foreign sales & piracy.

if everyone imported from criterion, then it would be a loss for whoever owns the rights to monsoon wedding in india.

Region locking wont prevent piracy. It will prevent foreign sales and I can't see how that works well for criterion.

On another note, who own the rights in India and Europe? Is there any release date lined out?

[vveksuvarna]

Originally Posted by GoodToGo

Region locking wont prevent piracy. It will prevent foreign sales and I can't see how that works well for criterion.

On another note, who own the rights in India and Europe? Is there any release date lined out?

from what i know, its this relatively unknown company called 'priya video'

who is selling monsoon wedding on dvd in india, so im assuming they still have the rights.

i doubt that movie will see a region C release anytime in the near future.

[vveksuvarna]

Originally Posted by GoodToGo

Region locking wont prevent piracy. It will prevent foreign sales and I can't see how that works well for criterion.

On another note, who own the rights in India and Europe? Is there any release date lined out?

the region locking on blurays work very differntly to that of dvd.

during its launch it was considered foolproof enough to combat piracy.

[OrlandoEastwood]

Originally Posted by vveksuvarna

i doubt there are region free bluray players.

i had heard rumors of unlocking players, but the next firmware would lock the device shut. so im not risking that.

There are. HKFlix sells two different region free players but they are like $400.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by bugsnest

...but from the review on Blu-Ray.com and the Criterion forum the transfer is supposed to be only average... Would love to hear what others think...

I am unsure how you arrived at the above conclusion, so allow me to clarify - the transfer is very good. Hence, the 4/5 out of 5 score.

Pro-B

[sanjay0864]

This is a must buy for me. The film itself is awesome and as per the review the Audio & Video are quite good. It is a shame that India did not enter this as their entry to the Academy Awards and instead sent Lagaan. The fact is 'Monsoon Wedding' in all probability would have won, considering it won the Golden Globe that same year.

PS: Region free players do exist. I myself have a hardware modified Oppo BDP-83 player and new firmware updates have absolutely no effect on it's 'region free' operations.

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by vveksuvarna

the point of region locking is to prevent foreign sales & piracy.

if everyone imported from criterion, then it would be a loss for whoever owns the rights to monsoon wedding in india.

Region locking is not very effective method of control. If someone needs multi region capability, the easiest and the most robust method is to get two blu-ray players from two main regions. blu-ray players sell close to $100, therefore it is really not a big deal.

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by GoodToGo

Even if you are saying is right, the decision is not a sound one. In USA, many NRI's will buy this blu-ray along with a smattering of other people. However, if it had been region unlocked many people like me (or online stores) would have imported it and that would have helped criterion realize a huge profit. You have to deliver to your target audience and Criterion missed the train big time.

Region locking is a poor method to control distribution rights. Criterion US has distribution rights probably for the US. So they cannot make it region free although they probably loved to make it region free to make many more sales.

[sanjay0864]

Originally Posted by syncguy

Region locking is not very effective method of control. If someone needs multi region capability, the easiest and the most robust method is to get two blu-ray players from two main regions. blu-ray players sell close to $100, therefore it is really not a big deal.

The total failure of 'Region coding' in the case of DVD, since every single player sold in Asia and most of the world outside the US is 'region free', is why HD-DVD had ommited it from their final specifications. In the case of Blu-Ray also given some more time Region Freee players will become common place and this will once again be reduced to nothing but a a nuisance for the honest paying customer.

PS: It is primarily due to the stubborn demands of just two studios, namely 'Fox' and 'Disney', that we have been stuck with 'Region coding' as part of the Blu-ray specs.

[bugsnest]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

I am unsure how you arrived at the above conclusion, so allow me to clarify - the transfer is very good. Hence, the 4/5 out of 5 score.

Pro-B

My conclusion of it being average, which could be entirely wrong, was based on the Criterion Forum than the BluRay.com review. I find BluRay.com reviews a little too generous at times.

Anyway seeing is beleiving I guess so I may wait to rent it before deciding if I would be getting it...

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by bugsnest

My conclusion of it being average, which could be entirely wrong, was based on the Criterion Forum than the BluRay.com review. I find BluRay.com reviews a little too generous at times.

Anyway seeing is beleiving I guess so I may wait to rent it before deciding if I would be getting it...

I just looked at Chris' review (and his score of 7/10, which is very close to ours), and I don't see how you concluded, based in his description, that the transfer is average:

For their Blu-ray edition of Mira Nair’s Monsoon Wedding Criterion presents the film in its original aspect ratio of 1.85:1 on this dual-layer Blu-ray disc. The picture is presented in 1080p.

The same high-definition transfer used as the basis for the DVD edition looks to be the same one found here but not downscaled of course. It offers an improvement over the DVD in all areas one would expect for a Blu-ray, though it still has some issues. The film was shot on Super 16mm and this seems to limit the transfer in some regards, specifically in detail. Grain is certainly more natural looking here in comparison with what’s on the DVD, and detail overall is sharper in comparison, but there are still instances where the image looks a little soft around the edges in the same places the DVD does. The film is bright and vibrant and colours do look quite a bit better here, specifically reds, oranges, pinks but there are still some blocking issues, noticeable more during the opening credits. But other than this I didn’t notice other artifacts of any kind.

And again, just like with the DVD, the print looks flawless and I can’t say I noticed any blemish showing up throughout the film.

Not Criterion’s strongest Blu-ray transfer, containing a few transfer problems and limited a bit by the source, but the film still looks very good on the format, the bright, colourful nature of it still making use of Blu-ray’s capabilities.

Chris makes it clear that there are source limitations (the film was shot on 16 mm), and that the high definition transfer enhances all areas where the DVD is lacking. In his final words he mentions that this may not be Criterion's best transfer, but, again, given the fact that Monsoon Wedding was shot on 16 mm, and that the new transfer was personally supervised and approved by director Nair - something the review does not mention - I really cannot see how you or anyone else for that matter can argue that it is average. If anything, Chris' review actually contradicts itself quite a bit as you can not see more detail on the Blu-ray transfer, if such isn't present on the original elements the transfer was struck from.

Pro-B

[bugsnest]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

I just looked at Chris' review (and his score of 7/10, which is very close to ours), and I don't see how you concluded, based in his description, that the transfer is average:



Chris makes it clear that there are source limitations (the film was shot on 16 mm), and that the high definition transfer enhances all areas where the DVD is lacking. In his final words he mentions that this may not be Criterion's best transfer, but, again, given the fact that Monsoon Wedding was shot on 16 mm, and that the new transfer was personally supervised and approved by director Nair - something the review does not mention - I really cannot see how you or anyone else for that matter can argue that it is average. If anything, Chris' review actually contradicts itself quite a bit as you can not see more detail on the Blu-ray transfer, if such isn't present on the original elements the transfer was struck from.

Pro-B

To me a 7/10 is an average or slightly above average transfer of a film on BD. The "good transfers" are the ones hovering around a 9. That's my benchmark, and works for my modest setup and my non-videophile sensibilities.
A 7 to me means the BD would not offer me a significant improvement in terms of PQ/AQ when compared to a well re-mastered Standard Def DVD, viewed on a good up-conversion player. I am not specifically talking about "Monsoon Wedding" but just as a general rule.

And the point I made about the BluRay.com reviews being a tad generous is going a little by the "numbers". The BluRay reviewer gave the PQ/AQ both a 4.5/5 which translates to a 9/10. If both reviewers felt the same way about the transfer then shouldn't the BluRay review be a 3.5/5 or vice versa?