The two most important components - the Room and your Ears

[prerich]

After years of speakers, components and reference material - I must ask this question - How many of your really consider your room and your ears when your flip the power switch?

I 've kept my Snell speakers in my system longer than any other speaker that I've owned...longer than VPMS, Polk SRS, Infinity, Klipsch, JBL, Paradigm, AR, older B&W, Def Tech and a host of others. That reign has finally came to an end - and I don't think its the speaker's fault.

I changed my room recently and it's very damped - after living with the room for a while I noticed something - all the life was snuff from my Snells. The bass was better but the top end was buried. I brought the Whafedale 9.2's into my home for 2 channel duty. When I noticed that I was turning the volume up louder than normal for HT - I retired the Snells and brought out the Klipsch. The Snells destroyed the Klipsch Heresys in an earlier shoot out, but it was under different room conditions (differnt subs, added components like PEQ, Crossovers, amps). The new conditions seem to favor the Klipsch. This lead me to the conclusion...your room has a sound of its own. Room tuning is something that we should all look into - but what are we looking for? Are we looking for a room so neutral that it adds nothing to the sound - Get an anechoic chamber for that. Every room has a signature.

What are we looking for? I even feel that producers and artist will record their works for the type venue they will be played in. I've listened to some recordings lately that sound great in a car system but horrible on a good 2 channel system. Does that mean the recording is bad, or does it mean that the artist targeted his audiance - knowing that the music will be listened to in a car? Some of the most dynamic sound I've ever heard was at a Christian Rap concert! I was shocked (they took their time with those Yorkville speakers). I've also heard bad live sound - from people that can play!!!! What was part of these factors - I believe it was the room! I've played Kirk Whalum's Gospel according to Jazz III CD in my system and I haven't heard horns sound better - I believe the room has something to do with that - because before my changes, the Klipsch had too much bite!!!

Whether your room sings, or you have tamed it to be a totally silent partner - it still has a signature. Which brings me to the other component - your ears. Age had caught up with me and years of headphones. Now I need something like a Klipsch speaker.

You will go through changes in this journey but the two most important components are not the ones in a store, but the ones you live with everyday!

[frogmort]

One of my friends has a pair of large bookshelf Snells that he bought about 12 years ago, and they are the some of the best sounding speakers I've ever heard.
It is hard for me to think that Klipsch could be that good. They seem a little harsh to me. I've been leaning towards Def Tech for a speaker upgrade, from my bottom end Polks.

I'm absolutely sure the room is almost as important as the components.

[HT in Paradise]

Hi Rich,

In the Eighties I had the privilege of listening to a room of 24 full round ASC Tube Trap copies, which was close to when the originals were first produced by ASC. Anyway, the full round traps are all acousticially adjustable. Each has half a reflective surface and other half being absorptive. So, the user\owner is able to construct a perfect LEDE (Live End, Dead End) room out of any rectangluar room, given a certain amount of the traps (likely less than 24 for an average room).

The effect if this amount of acoustic perfection is addictive for the serious music lover. How does a music system sound in such a room? Well, it sounds as though there are no wall boundries. Imagine playing a music system in the center of your favorite NFL Football stadium. Even speaking and then listening to your own voice in such a room is an experience.

Based on my rather limited acoustical experience, a room can either have its own sound, or it strictly cannot (of course a properly treated and tuned room), this of course means a rectangular room. The most fun was when my neighbor borrowed his Tube Traps to me for over a weeks time. Listening after they were gone was VERY depressing!

Most definitely, when I complete my dedicated HT room, I will be sure to incorperate full round Tube Traps. Under this sort of ideal condition(s), listening IS taken to another level, in that one experiences much more detail, soundstage, etc., etc., etc.

In retrospect, shortly after this experience, I commented to my neighbor that we both ought to be carefull about what we tell others about the vast differences we experienced as others will likely be rather skeptical of said claims exactly like the listening claims made of speaker wires, power cords and interconnects...

[prerich]

Originally Posted by frogmort

One of my friends has a pair of large bookshelf Snells that he bought about 12 years ago, and they are the some of the best sounding speakers I've ever heard.
It is hard for me to think that Klipsch could be that good. They seem a little harsh to me. I've been leaning towards Def Tech for a speaker upgrade, from my bottom end Polks.

I'm absolutely sure the room is almost as important as the components.

Believe me - under the proper settings the Snells are a better speaker - I believe they are better all together than the Klipsch. However since my 2 most important components have changed (my room due to damping - and my ears, begining to lose frequency ranges) it severly changed the sound of my beloved Snells. All of the caps are still in good order, I believe it's the room and my ears. My wife even noticed that I can't hear as well as I used to (close headphone monitoring and working with headsets as a crypto has finally taken its toll - as well as 30+ years of keyboarding). The Klipsch are mainly used for HT - I use the Wharfedales for music. I'm not going to give up my Snells at all - they will remain in storage until either the room changes again or I find that magic bullet speaker (then I will hand them to one of my two sons). Age is a great equalizer (pun intended indeed) - what you can't perfect, you learn in time to enjoy while still trying.

[bhampton]

I agree about the room and ears stuff.

I wear hearing protection when I mow and vacuum. My eyes and ears mean the world to me. (My nose could go I guess.)

I don't want to really throw out the importance of cables though. I thought cables didn't matter so I tried running my system without them. Huge Difference!

-Brian

[Almadacr]

I really trust my ears but on a different level , since i play a instrument and i use my ears to translate music in a Tablature way not in Musical notation , since i really don`t know musical notation . The room comes to question when there are some factors in play , my living room is a wide open space that that opens to a hall and i am in the process of trying to control that .

[naturephoto1]

Rich,

Most of your sound will come from your room/treatments and speakers. It is possible that you have over damped the room. Or, and more likely you may need to add some diffusion to the mix if you have added Acoustic Treatments including bass traps and Acoustic Panels.

You may want to send some photos on to Bryan at GIK Acoustics to have him make some suggestions and observations as to what you might want to add to improve the performance.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/

Rich

[prerich]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

Rich,

Most of your sound will come from your room/treatments and speakers. It is possible that you have over damped the room. Or, and more likely you may need to add some diffusion to the mix if you have added Acoustic Treatments including bass traps and Acoustic Panels.

You may want to send some photos on to Bryan at GIK Acoustics to have him make some suggestions and observations as to what you might want to add to improve the performance.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/

Rich

Thanks Rich, I will consider that. I do know that my hearing has changed.

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by prerich

After years of speakers, components and reference material - I must ask this question - How many of your really consider your room and your ears when your flip the power switch?

I 've kept my Snell speakers in my system longer than any other speaker that I've owned...longer than VPMS, Polk SRS, Infinity, Klipsch, JBL, Paradigm, AR, older B&W, Def Tech and a host of others. That reign has finally came to an end - and I don't think its the speaker's fault.

I changed my room recently and it's very damped - after living with the room for a while I noticed something - all the life was snuff from my Snells. The bass was better but the top end was buried. I brought the Whafedale 9.2's into my home for 2 channel duty. When I noticed that I was turning the volume up louder than normal for HT - I retired the Snells and brought out the Klipsch. The Snells destroyed the Klipsch Heresys in an earlier shoot out, but it was under different room conditions (differnt subs, added components like PEQ, Crossovers, amps). The new conditions seem to favor the Klipsch. This lead me to the conclusion...your room has a sound of its own. Room tuning is something that we should all look into - but what are we looking for? Are we looking for a room so neutral that it adds nothing to the sound - Get an anechoic chamber for that. Every room has a signature.

What are we looking for? I even feel that producers and artist will record their works for the type venue they will be played in. I've listened to some recordings lately that sound great in a car system but horrible on a good 2 channel system. Does that mean the recording is bad, or does it mean that the artist targeted his audiance - knowing that the music will be listened to in a car? Some of the most dynamic sound I've ever heard was at a Christian Rap concert! I was shocked (they took their time with those Yorkville speakers). I've also heard bad live sound - from people that can play!!!! What was part of these factors - I believe it was the room! I've played Kirk Whalum's Gospel according to Jazz III CD in my system and I haven't heard horns sound better - I believe the room has something to do with that - because before my changes, the Klipsch had too much bite!!!

Whether your room sings, or you have tamed it to be a totally silent partner - it still has a signature. Which brings me to the other component - your ears. Age had caught up with me and years of headphones. Now I need something like a Klipsch speaker.

You will go through changes in this journey but the two most important components are not the ones in a store, but the ones you live with everyday!

Soo true.....getting the time/opportunity to watch/listen to a blu with 2 little ones running around is the most important component!

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Fors*

Soo true.....getting the time/opportunity to watch/listen to a blu with 2 little ones running around is the most important component!

. And after they are grown and gone, when they visit it just adds to the ambiance! I love to watch a blu with the ones I love!

[mikesorensen06]

The room is so important to the final sonic presentation and is also the most overlooked when it comes to component selection. The room is a component and the same care and acoustic considerations must be given to the room as one gives to selecting an amplifier and speaker. I would argue more time needs to be spent on the room and its treatment.

Moving a speaker within a room even an inch forward can change the perceived sound at the listening position let alone the frequency response curve. Room dimensions cause low frequency pressure issues that can cause certain frequencies to be exaggerated and certain frequencies to not be heard at all. Room wall reflections can reach the listening position and combine with the direct sound from our speakers and produce a confusing and sound stage distorting presentation.

With all of the influence the room has on low, middle, and high frequencies, we need to pay even more attention to room acoustics especially in smaller rooms than watts and speaker size.

[bwablu]

Originally Posted by HT in Paradise

Hi Rich,

In the Eighties I had the privilege of listening to a room of 24 full round ASC Tube Trap copies, which was close to when the originals were first produced by ASC. Anyway, the full round traps are all acousticially adjustable. Each has half a reflective surface and other half being absorptive. So, the user\owner is able to construct a perfect LEDE (Live End, Dead End) room out of any rectangluar room, given a certain amount of the traps (likely less than 24 for an average room).

The effect if this amount of acoustic perfection is addictive for the serious music lover. How does a music system sound in such a room? Well, it sounds as though there are no wall boundries. Imagine playing a music system in the center of your favorite NFL Football stadium. Even speaking and then listening to your own voice in such a room is an experience.

Based on my rather limited acoustical experience, a room can either have its own sound, or it strictly cannot (of course a properly treated and tuned room), this of course means a rectangular room. The most fun was when my neighbor borrowed his Tube Traps to me for over a weeks time. Listening after they were gone was VERY depressing!

Most definitely, when I complete my dedicated HT room, I will be sure to incorperate full round Tube Traps. Under this sort of ideal condition(s), listening IS taken to another level, in that one experiences much more detail, soundstage, etc., etc., etc.

In retrospect, shortly after this experience, I commented to my neighbor that we both ought to be carefull about what we tell others about the vast differences we experienced as others will likely be rather skeptical of said claims exactly like the listening claims made of speaker wires, power cords and interconnects...

You are so correct about listening room acoustics and the improvement
that can be made by using ASC tube traps. I use many of these bass and midrange traps along with other acoustical products. Placing these traps
around the entire room at 3' intervals with the reflecting side adjusted to
distribute the highs provides great imaging and voice reproduction is so
very articulate and easy to understand.

[Big Daddy]

It doesn't matter how good your speakers are or how well your room is treated if your hearing is damaged.

A large percentage of the population over the age of 40, particularly men, suffer from some sort of hearing loss. Instead of so much credit to Steve Jobs (RIP) and Apple for changing the technology game (iPod, iTunes, etc.), we should severly critize them along with Sony (Walkman, Discman, etc.) and all subwoofer manufacturers for being partially responsible for damaging the hearing of the future generation.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

It doesn't matter how good your speakers are or how well your room is treated if your hearing is damaged.

A large percentage of the population over the age of 40, particularly men, suffer from some sort of hearing loss. Instead of so much credit to Steve Jobs (RIP) and Apple for changing the technology game (iPod, iTunes, etc.), we should severly critize them along with Sony (Walkman, Discman, etc.) and all subwoofer manufacturers for being partially responsible for damaging the hearing of the future generation.

Now that's deep!!!!