Great Interview w/ANDY PARSONS OF BDA!

[BTBuck1]

HDBeat Interview: Andy Parsons of the BDA & Pioneer's Senior VP

Posted Aug 8th 2006 11:00AM by Matt Burns
Filed under: Industry, Manufacturers
Part of the HDBeat podcast team recently had the chance to chat with Blu-ray Disc Association's spokesman and Pioneer Electronics' Senior VP, Andy Parsons. Let us tell you, it was a rather large eye-opener into the Blu-ray camp and this is a must read for every HD DVD fanboy. Many of us had unanswered questions concerning BD+, managed copy, and dual-format players and Andy answered them all. What follows after the jump isn't the full conversation but it's close. We also recorded the interview and if listening is more your speed, it's available as a special edition of the HDBeat Podcast.

Andy starts out explaining that he is a Blu-ray cheerleader and that HD DVD has had a good release and has been successful promoting HD DVD, but they are still by themselves in regards to hardware which is a big challenge for them. Blu-ray on the other hand already has Samsung, as well as a number of other manufactures and the PS3. This will create a content vacuum which will motivate the studios to release Blu-ray movies. It is hard to image how HD DVD will complete, unless they can convince other CE companies or studios to switch sides. Up until now no other studio have switched sides while a few have announced plans for Blu-ray. "What content can I buy in the format, what movies, is a powerful motivator, which is more important than CODECs or cropping". He understands that comparisons are fun, but they will not resonate with the mass majority of consumers, vs titles available. He can't see how they can make it work.

Click here for interview:
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/08/hdb...ers-senior-vp/

[hmurchison]

My thoughts.

I agree with Parsons about the studio advantage. HD DVD will have to pick up a studio or two and I think they will but when? Studio support isn't locked in stone. DVD didn't launch with Disney or Paramount either.

Parsons glosses over the price advantage a wee bit too fast. Consumers don't pay twice as much because a format has more players.

Parsons incorrectly assumes that HD DVD is close to the limits. The discs with 27Mbps discs have a lot of extras (Phantom of th Opera). Serenity and Doom as well as SL ATL and others disprove his comments here.

BD-Live- "connected player" allows PiP and larger persistant memory. By 2007 all players must deliver PiP (mid to latter 2007) This supports Amir's statement that BD players today don't mandated a second decoder.

Managed Copy- Parsons says there never was a difference between the two as MC is governed by AACS. BD+ will not interfere with MC. No such thing as Mandatory Managed Copy in AACS spec.

Dual Format players- Parsons says no limit to dual format players aren't in the license. Assumption that Universal is the only HD DVD only studio.

[JTK]

It could be just me, but I really felt like I took a lot of "quantity over quality" from this interview.

Statements like these, for example:

"What content can I buy in the format, what movies, is a powerful motivator, which is more important than CODECs or cropping".

When it comes to the early adopter types, which is all this marketplace will be for several years, at least, he's completely wrong.

For this kind of money, we damn well better see discs that don't look like Robocop and have to pay a thousand bucks to get in the door to get to crap like that.

They can have all the great hardware, all the great support, all the great everything, but thus far, they haven't delivered on anything they've promised. God knows they haven't delivered on "Beyond high definition."

In many of those discs' case, you'd be hard pressed to call it HD at all with a straight face.

BD50 with an advanced codec and, most importantly, a remastered original source = what Blu-Ray is supposed to be and what should kick ass without question.

The medicore product they're trying to peddle at present, and pass off as even equal, let alone superior to HD-DVD...No way.

No sale, either.

At the very least, it's obvious that people should avoid any discs that pass through Sony's studios. Those discs are simply going to be crap.

It is hard to image how HD DVD will complete, unless they can convince other CE companies or studios to switch sides.

Keep fumbling the ball and shooting yourselves in the foot. Keep putting out discs like RoboCop and watch what happens.



I'm not going to put words in his mouth, but I also felt like I took away the idea of sticking with MPEG2 for a while.

Ok, that's fine, but if you do that, you must get those BD50's disc out so you have the space to let that codec breathe.

MPEG2 + BD25 ain't gonna work for ya.

But even before that? Rushing films out before a much needed remastering and face life really ain't gonna work for ya. Don't bother putting those films out at all until you're ready to do it right.

Sony's studios are far and away the largest offenders. I'll know to avoid their discs for the foreseeable future should I buy into Blu-Ray in the Fall like I'm expecting to.

[BTBuck1]

One thing alot of people just dont get is, the reason nobody else is making an HDDVD player is because if they are compareably price with blu ray players ($1000ea+) then nobody is going to buy HDDVD over blu-ray when the technological and studio advantage is with Blu Ray. Samsung & LG are not going to subsidize their players to help the format in the way TOSHIBA is. These companies want to turn a profit, and for Toshiba they can do it if the turn out 600,000-700,000 units per year even selling the players at a loss because of royalties etc.

This is where things are going to turn out bad for HDDVD. As good as their software is, as bad is Blu Ray's is The writer of this article brings up some really good points... Only the early adopter crowd is going to tell the differance. Hell even I look at most Blu Ray titles and go, "this looks awesome-what the hell are people talking about" and like i said most people don't even have their DVD players hooked up right or upconverting. Through educating consumers (CE companies responsibility on their products) Decisions will be more based on Brand matching and where their favorite movies are comming from (studio support). As much as you guys disagree with this article (and i admit he did gloss over Quality) He brought up points that are so true...and it shows me that these guys do understand the different "psyche" of customers out their, be it HT enthusiasts or the "crossover" customer-which beleive it or not is the target audience...not us =(

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

One thing alot of people just dont get is, the reason nobody else is making an HDDVD player is because if they are compareably price with blu ray players ($1000ea+) then nobody is going to buy HDDVD over blu-ray when the technological and studio advantage is with Blu Ray. Samsung & LG are not going to subsidize their players to help the format in the way TOSHIBA is. These companies want to turn a profit, and for Toshiba they can do it if the turn out 600,000-700,000 units per year even selling the players at a loss because of royalties etc.

I'd argue about Blu-Ray having a technological advantage overall. More space doesn't mean the format is superior in any other context than total recording time. Speaking of subsidy

the Compusa in Tacoma Washington just put up the new Acer 20" laptop. Man what a behemoth but I'll tell you this. They put Million Dollar Baby in the HD DVD player and onto that 1680-1050 screen and it lookd great! Here's the kicker this 18lb beast was only $2399!

I'm not sure if the HD DVD player inside added more than $300 to the total price. Plus you have the HD DVD enabled Qosmio and soon Fujitsu-Siemens.

I think Blu-Ray is going to have a bright future but don't expect me to grab some pom poms and start cheering. CE Vendor support "will" change. Studio support "will" change. Eventually China will making both players and Universal will go Blu-Ray and BV/Disney will make HD DVD.

Parsons makes the fallacious assumption that support is static and it's never static. Universal doesn't make UMDs anymore because they didn't see the value in it. When studios see the value supporting HD DVD they will make that move regardless of what Parson's hopes or wants. You can control certain segments of the market but you cannot control the whole market.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

I'd argue about Blu-Ray having a technological advantage overall.

In the here and now, it most certainly does not.

More space doesn't mean the format is superior in any other context than total recording time. Speaking of subsidy

In the here and now, HD-DVD has more space, so even that's a dead argument until the BD50 movies start rolling out.

the Compusa in Tacoma Washington just put up the new Acer 20" laptop. Man what a behemoth but I'll tell you this. They put Million Dollar Baby in the HD DVD player and onto that 1680-1050 screen and it lookd great! Here's the kicker this 18lb beast was only $2399!

I'm not sure if the HD DVD player inside added more than $300 to the total price. Plus you have the HD DVD enabled Qosmio and soon Fujitsu-Siemens.

Finally some kind of exposure.

Marketing/advertising/PR/exposure: The BDA is winning on these fronts hands down. It's not even close.

I can see Blu-Ray ads everywhere, hear about it. Even on crap like pro wrestling, I've seen BD ads. It's out there.

I think Blu-Ray is going to have a bright future but don't expect me to grab some pom poms and start cheering.

Anyone who's objective about the facts must concede that THUS FAR: The BDA has done NOTHING to earn anyone's loyalty or support.

CE Vendor support "will" change. Studio support "will" change. Eventually China will making both players and Universal will go Blu-Ray and BV/Disney will make HD DVD.

It's underground, but it'll happen.

Parsons makes the fallacious assumption that support is static and it's never static.

Some people think it's already over and they can hang their hats.

Not just yet.

Universal doesn't make UMDs anymore because they didn't see the value in it. When studios see the value supporting HD DVD they will make that move regardless of what Parson's hopes or wants.

Exactly.

And it's getting to the point where they'd have to be blind to miss it.

REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING ELSE:

HD-DVD has proven itself. Now.

There is going to come a point where more studios say: "Hey. We can make some extra change here. Throw that thing a few bones and see what happens."

It's increasingly becoming bad business to not even CONSIDER HD-DVD at this point.

Again: I wish all the studios would support both formats and let the chips fall where they may. Total free market and capitialism, but Sony studios and Universal studios alone have rendered that scenario forever impossible, right off the bat.

Pity.

You can control certain segments of the market but you cannot control the whole market.

All true.



I think it all comes down to the 4th quarter of this year, and specifically: The holidays.

When all the smoke has cleared and we're well into 2007...that's when we'll all start to get an idea of what's what.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

I'd argue about Blu-Ray having a technological advantage overall. More space doesn't mean the format is superior in any other context than total recording time. Speaking of subsidy

okay, so what about spin read speed and bit rates? are those not technological advantages too?

Both sides paint a pretty picture on how things will look. We'll see how the picture looks after fall when the paint drys.

[vick vega]

No doubt let's put killer clowns from outer space on blu-ray too! People will enjoy that

[JTK]

Originally Posted by vick vega

No doubt let's put killer clowns from outer space on blu-ray too! People will enjoy that

LMAO!

[vick vega]

shit they have popcorn guns!

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

"What content can I buy in the format, what movies, is a powerful motivator, which is more important than CODECs or cropping".

Okay this quote right here proves that Parsons is an idiot! Early adopters will determine which HD disc format prevails. Early adopters are voting that quality matters. Parsons can shove MPEG2 up where the sun don't shine. As far as I'm concerned he's lost all credibility with me. No wonder the Blu-ray launch is a disaster with idiots like this making the decisions.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by nyg

Okay this quote right here proves that Parsons is an idiot! Early adopters will determine which HD disc format prevails. Early adopters are voting that quality matters. Parsons can shove MPEG2 up where the sun don't shine. As far as I'm concerned he's lost all credibility with me. No wonder the Blu-ray launch is a disaster with idiots like this making the decisions.

Wow, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel?

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by nyg

Okay this quote right here proves that Parsons is an idiot! Early adopters will determine which HD disc format prevails. Early adopters are voting that quality matters. Parsons can shove MPEG2 up where the sun don't shine. As far as I'm concerned he's lost all credibility with me. No wonder the Blu-ray launch is a disaster with idiots like this making the decisions.

he's referring to the mass market not the hometheatre crowd.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

he's referring to the mass market not the hometheatre crowd.

Early adopters will determine which codecs are preferred, not Joe Sixpack. By the time one of these formats is thriving Joe Sixpack will be left with one choice, HD DVD, if things continue on the road they currently are. Mr. Parsons is really out of touch if he thinks Blu-ray will survive with its current codecs. That studio support he's so proud of will disappear unless codec changes are made.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by nyg

Early adopters will determine which codecs are preferred, not Joe Sixpack. By the time one of these formats is thriving Joe Sixpack will be left with one choice, HD DVD, if things continue on the road they currently are. Mr. Parsons is really out of touch if he thinks Blu-ray will survive with its current codecs. That studio support he's so proud of will disappear unless codec changes are made.

Remember how much HD-DVD supporters were being bashed for invoking J6P as any kind of hope for their format?

Now we're seeing Blu-Ray supporters and big wigs doing it?!

Wow.

I said it since day one and I'll say it again: Joe Six Pack is a complete ZERO and non factor for HD anything for years to come, especially either one of these formats. They're not going to save HD-DVD. They sure as hell aren't going to save Blu-Ray.

Abandon the concept and idea as fast as you can. It's sheer fantasy and folly that the entire history of consumer electronics destroys immediately.

[JTK]

Footnote: I become very nervous when I see any kind of talk about a product trying to cater to the lowest common denominator. That's a kiss of death everytime in my book and I NEVER would have thought I'd even BEGIN to see Blu-Ray associated with that kind of thinking and approach.

That should put the fear of God into even the most hardcore of BD zealots.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by nyg

Mr. Parsons is really out of touch if he thinks Blu-ray will survive with its current codecs. That studio support he's so proud of will disappear unless codec changes are made.

ok, this makes like zero sense. "the studio support will dissapear unless codec changes are made" umm, isnt it the STUDIO's choice how their software is encoded? The Hardware provides the ability to do it anyway they want. So what are your trying to say? That they are purposefully putting out bad encoded discs to lose money and jump to HDDVD? uhh...okay.

I also consider anyone who thinks PS3 is a non factor the "out of touch one"

Also can someone define j6p? cus as far as i'm concerned he's not a hillbilly watching a black & white tv with rabbit ears...he's just basically anyone not as Uber as us...or atleast thats the way I always looked at it. But you guys act like he's in some basement watching film strips and listening to tupac on reel-to-reel.

Look, I deal with the whole variety of customers on a daily basis. I have gotten pretty good at reading people in 12 years of customer service/sales/retail. And one thing i've learned as a salesperson is first, Nobody can tell a looker from a buyer it's impossible, second...if you want someone to buy something, you tell them they can't have it and present them with other inferior options...I can pretty much bet you with the right presentation you will do a mind job on them and they will all of the sudden be captivated in that item you told them was "out of their league" I usually start it out with.."so whats your budget" most will follow with "oh, lets not talk price...show me whats good" I start with the best, and usually thats where it ends...or somewhere inbetween. but generally never the cheapest or worse porduct is walked off with unless I clerk the item.

My point to this is, Average joe doesn't come into BB and say...hey I looked online and everyone on avsforum said the Blu Ray is crap so i'm here to buy the HDDVD. No, they look at the neat endcap ask a few questions and either walk, or take one simple as that. And the Uber T. Avsforum guy buys it online with his deal he caught on fatwallet or if by chance he does get it at BB it's a walk in, grab and go...never even consulting with an associate. But trust me, far more people ask for assitance than don't in BB. (actually it's quite annoying sometimes, the dumbest questions i get) "is this the cable i need from my wall to tv for cable [holding coax cable in hand]" i feal like saying no it's this one and pointing to an optical cable!...lol j/k

Customers rely on being educated by the sales staff. I know you guys are poo pooing that idea because you'd never do it. But these people aren't you and never assume what someone is willing to spend on something because you will ALWAYS sell yourself short if you do (ahem...Toshiba)
Sony & crew get this...how come you guys dont? you can go nowhere but down with price...so if blu ray decides $1000 isnt working out, they can always go down...Can toshiba go up? mmmm, dun think so! And if they go any further down, they'll go under...as they are all alone swimming in a sea of sharks.

[JTK]

No. Studio support can change if Blu-Ray keeps putting out crappy products and charging big money for it...and trying to either claim it's equal or superior to HD-DVD when it simply is not in its present form.

It's not just about the codecs. A disaster like Robocop happens when you take a shitty master and blow it up to HD resolutions. No codec can save a crappy source.

The efficient codec comes in as the finisher so you don't have to sweat space concerns, which BD most certainly does with this current, disasterous MPEG-2/BD25 combination. <- At least one of those things needs to be changed yesterday.

And they also need to stop putting movies out before giving some of them the much needed face life, cleanup, and remastering that's so obviously needed in some cases.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Brian@BBY

ok, this makes like zero sense. "the studio support will dissapear unless codec changes are made" umm, isnt it the STUDIO's choice how their software is encoded? The Hardware provides the ability to do it anyway they want. So what are your trying to say? That they are purposefully putting out bad encoded discs to lose money and jump to HDDVD? uhh...okay.

Yes that's pretty much what I'm saying. No they don't want HD DVD to survive but since Sony owns a patent in MPEG2 it is their company who decided MPEG2 was the way to go for launch titles. Look at every HT forum out there. Which format are the majority of us interested in? Answer honestly.

I also consider anyone who thinks PS3 is a non factor the "out of touch one"

I never said PS3 wouldn't be a factor. In fact I've always agreed that it would be.

Also can someone define j6p? cus as far as i'm concerned he's not a hillbilly watching a black & white tv with rabbit ears...he's just basically anyone not as Uber as us...or atleast thats the way I always looked at it. But you guys act like he's in some basement watching film strips and listening to tupac on reel-to-reel.

Joe Sixpack is the guy who shops the $4.88 DVDs in the Walmart bin and buys his first DVD player for $29.99 during a holiday season special. He plays absolutely no part in determining which HD disc format will survive. He's happy with cheap and simple players.

Customers rely on being educated by the sales staff. I know you guys are poo pooing that idea because you'd never do it. But these people aren't you and never assume what someone is willing to spend on something because you will ALWAYS sell yourself short if you do (ahem...Toshiba)
Sony & crew get this...how come you guys dont? you can go nowhere but down with price...so if blu ray decides $1000 isnt working out, they can always go down...Can toshiba go up? mmmm, dun think so! And if they go any further down, they'll go under...as they are all alone swimming in a sea of sharks.

Joe Sixpack relies on being educated by a usually ill informed sales staff. But you're missing the point, if early adopters overwhelmingly choose HD DVD then Blu-ray won't even be around by the time Joe Sixpack is even the slightest bit interested. Thus the reason for Blu-ray supporting studios to use better codecs now. Sony and others need to win over early adopters. As it stands now only a few Blu-ray diehards such as yourself are still in their corner. Keep in mind I was a BD diehard for years but then they came out with their launch and failed on just about every level. I'm not going to support that kind of activity. HD DVD provided a much more satisfying purchase.

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by nyg

Mr. Parsons is really out of touch if he thinks Blu-ray will survive with its current codecs. That studio support he's so proud of will disappear unless codec changes are made.

No, I disagree with you. Quality is a moot issue.

Blurays current codecs are the same as HD DVDs current codecs. All three codecs are in the players. VC-1 is in the players. AVC is in the players. Bluray supports all three codecs. MPEG2 is supported by Bluray but not all Bluray discs will be MPEG2.

Columbia Tristar has made its choices of the three codecs.

Columbia Tristar is not everyone.

The Studio support Mr Parsons is proud of can each choose whatever codec they want from the three available. They can choose the same one they use for HD DVD (in the case of WB or Paramount). Disney and Fox can do what they want.

So for the studios where there are choices, the discs can have the same quality. For the others, quality is not an issue since the discs are only available in one format.

As a horrible example, if you want the Fifth Element on HD disc you only have one choice - a shitty bluray disc. HD DVD being 'higher quality' will not get you a higher quality copy of the Fifth Element.

It seems so simple to me.

Am I missing something?