Original Audio vs. Remixed Audio

[Blu-21]

When I say "Remixed Audio" I do not mean complete and utter overhauls like The Terminator or The Good, The Bad & The Ugly where the 5.1 audio mix uses and adds completely different sound elements from the orignal respective mono tracks, no, I mean faithfully, carefully made 5.1/6.1/7.1 audio mixes where the integrity of the orignal sound is still very much in tact but its just been given more space to breath with regards to opening up the sound stage and expanding things a little.

So even if crafted tastefully with the up most respect to the orignal sound design, if you could only pick one would you opt for the orignal 1.0/2.0/4.0 etc mono/stereo mix? or the newly created 5.1/6.1/7.1 etc DTS-HD mix?

FYI in this hypothetical scenario both tracks would be lossless..

[L'armée des ombres]

Both would be ideal

[Markgway]

Original always.

[I KEEL YOU]

Always original. I was thinking about this subject a lot because yesterday I was watching my newly bought Arrow release of The King of New York. The DTS mix sounded horrible, like everything on the screen was happening inside a giant cardboard tube. I don't know if the US release has the same mix, but it sounds like poop. Fortunately, it had the LPCM track that sounded 1000 times better.

The only time I would like a remix is if there were songs used in the soundtrack that used an ancient audio source, but if since then the song has been restored from a better source.

[isaacredfield]

Original for me

[HD Goofnut]

Give me the original mix. If a film was recorded in mono then I want the mono mix.

[obscurelabel]

I don't mind if there is a bump provided but the original should always be included. I don't know why this isn't always done, there's usually plenty of room for multiple audio files on the discs. I lived through the 1970s when many of the great mono recordings from the 1950s and 1960s were frequently available only in reissues with rechannelled stereo, which was horrible. The CD boom of the 1980s resulted in the restoration of original for just about all of these to mono, thank goodness. Just leave the original alone.

[Popcorn_Bliss]

After having said I'm a traditionalist in regards to things like streaming versus collecting, I will turn the other direction and say that I'm beginning to appreciate well mixed 5.1/7.1 mixes, if they are provided.

Having said that, every film should include its original audio track.

The new 40th anniversary of one of my all-time favorites, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, is a prime example. What mix is the more faithful way to experience the film? I'd always say the original mono. But what mix provides a more fresh and dynamic viewing experience? I like the newly "created" DTS 7.1. Having ALL the options is the preferred choice.

[dvdmike]

Original, always.
Not even a question, if they want a remix on disc they should include the original.
If you want to fill your expensive speakers your receiver has a mode to do that

[BNex99]

Most of the time I prefer the original audio, or, as I often say, something closely resembling it. Many, many films are slightly remixed for home viewing without us realizing it, and I'm usually okay with that as long as nothing is missing. And some films from certain eras have multiple "original" mixes. So it can be tricky.

That said, I'm usually okay with a carefully-handled remix, as long as there is nothing missing (or nothing too substantial added, as in some cases).

However, what's really annoying is when a mono or stereo audio option is offered for an older film, but it's actually just a fold-down of the 5.1 or 7.1 remix, rather than actual original audio. Examples include Anchor Bay's HALLOWEEN 35th Anniversary (single-disc version; it was corrected for the box set), Scream Factory's ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK and MAD MAX (and MGM'S MAD MAX BD, too), and from what I've read, THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE 40th Anniversary mentioned above, which has a downmix in place of the original mono (haven't heard that one myself, though).

[blueman_Richie]

Original always. I don't want new sound fx or all encompassing audio if the film when made wasn't like that.

For years, the 'Vertigo' remix pissed me off (at least now there's an original mono option on blu-ray but only on the US release). 'The Exorcist' won an oscar for it's sound but we can't hear the ORIGINAL audio on any release to date.

'Grease' is the absolute worst offender though. The truly horrible remix done for the '98 re-release is now the de facto soundtrack and it ****ing sucks. If Paramount care at all, they're do another blu-ray for that with a whole new transfer and include the original audio mix from 1978 (and the original studio logos too). It'll never happen though I'm sure and another classic will sail on into history in a compromised, revised edition.

[Geoff D]

I understand your point Blu-21. I'd take a respectful multi-channel remix in lieu of any original audio option at all, but even so: if the original is on there then I'll default to that. Still, for Vertigo they redid the audio to be more faithful for the Blu-ray, and as the Euro disc doesn't have the mono at all the remix is the only option.

(I copied an old widescreen VHS of Grease to DVD just so's I could have some form of the original track to hand. I could do without the windowboxing of the titles on the Blu-ray too, the old DVD didnt have that!)

[meremortal]

This is one of my only gripes about catalog blu ray releases. The original mix should be included every time and there's usually plenty of space left on the disc for the inclusion of a DTS-HD mono or stereo track. I realize the average person with a home theater setup is used to the modern day "surround sound experience," but simpler is often better with older movies not mixed for a multichannel release. The contrasts can be subtle to quite different, but they are still different.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by meremortal

This is one of my only gripes about catalog blu ray releases. The original mix should be included every time and there's usually plenty of space left on the disc for the inclusion of a DTS-HD mono or stereo track. I realize the average person with a home theater setup is used to the modern day "surround sound experience," but simpler is often better with older movies not mixed for a multichannel release. The contrasts can be subtle to quite different, but they are still different.

It's more than that the modern six channel mixes are far from the original six channel mixes
Dialogue is always locked to the centre speaker and we get bloody near field mixes

[Popcorn_Bliss]

Originally Posted by BNex99

and from what I've read, THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE 40th Anniversary mentioned above, which has a downmix in place of the original mono (haven't heard that one myself, though).

That's true but the nice thing, in my opinion, about the set is that several/all options are available to us. I would always default to the original mono if suggesting one as a first time experience to someone, but the surround mixes are nice if you're looking for a fresh tweak to the audio experience.

[Bluyoda]

I take option 3: Both versions should be available on BD.

[Popcorn_Bliss]

Yeah, The Exorcist is a bit of a puzzle. I adore my Warner digibook but I'm not sure why the mono track wasn't included as well. These appear to be the ones we have so far...

Digibook (Director's Cut and Theatrical Cut) 2010 DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 ES
Single Disc Director's Cut 2011 DTS-HD Master Audio 6.1
40th Anniversary Set 2013 DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1

I assume the unusual 6.1 mix was the track used for the 1979 re-release (per IMDB). So I guess it's nice to have that one. Although, the 1979 release would have been the theatrical cut and not the director's cut (as it is on the 2011 blu). So I'm not sure if the 6.1 on the blu is the same as the mix used in 1979? Above all that, I'm not sure why the original track has yet to show up on any of these releases.

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by Popcorn_Bliss

That's true but the nice thing, in my opinion, about the set is that several/all options are available to us. I would always default to the original mono if suggesting one as a first time experience to someone, but the surround mixes are nice if you're looking for a fresh tweak to the audio experience.

Again, I haven't heard the disc myself, so I'm not sure, but apparently, the original mono is actually not on there. The mono track that is there is a fold-down of the 7.1 remix.

Originally Posted by Popcorn_Bliss

Yeah, The Exorcist is a bit of a puzzle. I adore my Warner digibook but I'm not sure why the mono track wasn't included as well. These appear to be the ones we have so far...

Digibook (Director's Cut and Theatrical Cut) 2010 DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 ES
Single Disc Director's Cut 2011 DTS-HD Master Audio 6.1
40th Anniversary Set 2013 DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1

I assume the unusual 6.1 mix was the track used for the 1979 re-release (per IMDB). So I guess it's nice to have that one. Although, the 1979 release would have been the theatrical cut and not the director's cut (as it is on the 2011 blu). So I'm not sure if the 6.1 on the blu is the same as the mix used in 1979? Above all that, I'm not sure why the original track has yet to show up on any of these releases.

Those three releases are all the exact same discs (obviously, the 2011 single-disc is just the extended cut). The extended version has a 6.1 track, while the original has a 5.1. I'm no authority, but here's what has been surmised on the dedicated Exorcist threads:

The 6.1 on the "Extended Director's Cut" is essentially the ground-up remix done for the 2000 theatrical re-release. A lot of extra sound effects throughout, and I think even a couple of different music cues.

The 5.1 on the BD Theatrical Version seems to be based on the original mono. It's practically mono anyway, just with some sound effects and music cues slightly expanded into the surrounds.

The 1979 remix was used on several VHS and laserdisc releases throughout the 80s and 90s, and also on the initial DVD in 1997. There are a few extra sound effects (though different from the 2000 remix), and some spatial effects on some of the demon's lines (such as "AND I'M THE DEVIL!").

Hope that helps!

[Popcorn_Bliss]

Originally Posted by BNex99

Again, I haven't heard the disc myself, so I'm not sure, but apparently, the original mono is actually not on there. The mono track that is there is a fold-down of the 7.1 remix.



Those three releases are all the exact same discs (obviously, the 2011 single-disc is just the extended cut). The extended version has a 6.1 track, while the original has a 5.1. I'm no authority, but here's what has been surmised on the dedicated Exorcist threads:

The 6.1 on the "Extended Director's Cut" is essentially the ground-up remix done for the 2000 theatrical re-release. A lot of extra sound effects throughout, and I think even a couple of different music cues.

The 5.1 on the BD Theatrical Version seems to be based on the original mono. It's practically mono anyway, just with some sound effects and music cues slightly expanded into the surrounds.

The 1979 remix was used on several VHS and laserdisc releases throughout the 80s and 90s, and also on the initial DVD in 1997. There are a few extra sound effects (though different from the 2000 remix), and some spatial effects on some of the demon's lines (such as "AND I'M THE DEVIL!").

Hope that helps!

Thanks! That does help. I wasn't aware that the 2000 release used yet another 6.1 mix but that explains a lot of it. Oh, the pitfalls of being an Exorcist mix collector...

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by meremortal

This is one of my only gripes about catalog blu ray releases. The original mix should be included every time and there's usually plenty of space left on the disc for the inclusion of a DTS-HD mono or stereo track. I realize the average person with a home theater setup is used to the modern day "surround sound experience," but simpler is often better with older movies not mixed for a multichannel release. The contrasts can be subtle to quite different, but they are still different.

I heard that the orignal stereo mixes for older films from a certain period in time would have lots of dialog panning from left to right or vice versa bascially tracking the actor(s) on screen wherever they go. With modern remixes that dialog panning seems to be all but eliminated with all the dialog being locked to the middle speaker. So in a way the modern audio remixes of these tracks are more simplified which the more I think about is something that I don't like.