Kam & Ronson...Yea or Nay?

[Mughi]

I've heard of Kam & Ronson's problems with BD transfers of earlier HK films, but what I'm curious about are their releases licensed from more recent Japanese titles...in particular, NODAME CANTABILE: THE FINAL SCORE. The price is half that of the Japanese release, which makes it very tempting. My question is, can I expect a direct port of the Japanese BD, with regard to video data and subtitles? Or is the quality likely to be degraded in some fashion?

[toddly6666]

Yeah for me - I'm happy with Kam & Ronson. I don't know anything about their Japanese releases. All I have is the Taiwanese blu-ray of Goemon which is a Japanese port - same great video/audio quality.

[mangagirl]

They're very good. The quality of their latest title the Hong Kong movie Merry-Go-Round is excellent.

[pro-bassoonist]

They are fine in my book. When they have access to solid masters, they use them. When such do not exist, they do what they can.

The Hong Kong film industry differs greatly from Hollywood, so one has to judge it with different criteria in mind.

Pro-B

[Mobe1969]

Which is the HK Studio that blooody well doubles up English and Chinese subtitles?

[AnimeOnBlu]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

Which is the HK Studio that blooody well doubles up English and Chinese subtitles?

Panasia.

[FlixLov3r]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

They are fine in my book. When they have access to solid masters, they use them. When such do not exist, they do what they can.

The Hong Kong film industry differs greatly from Hollywood, so one has to judge it with different criteria in mind.

Pro-B

Boom!

[drees5761]

Some of the K&R titles released of earlier HK titles are awful (Once Upon A Time In China, Police Story etc). As HK blu rays tend to be expensive why waste you money, just buy the cheaper dvd and watch it upconverted on your BR player.
I wont go into the awful sound remixes with added sounds also, that has been discussed elsewhere.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by drees5761

...why waste you money, just buy the cheaper dvd and watch it upconverted on your BR player.

Upconverted DVDs are not identical to upconverted Blu-rays.

Pro-B

[Mike dk]

What I really don't like about a lot of Kam & Ronson's blu ray's is that they try and sell something as HD when in reality it is clearly not. If they can't get a real HD master why try and fool people by releasing upconverted films and advertise them as being High Definition ?
When I buy a blu ray disc I espect real HD, nothing less.

[PGW]

Ditto, that.

The "well, it's the best source available..." excuse (see the review on "All About Ah Long") doesn't fly, unless every damn 35mm copy of the film has ceased to exist. Go back to the film, re-scan it, restore it, and THEN put it out on blu-ray as hi-def.

There's no reason to settle for "second best" when it comes to Asian films.

[Dragon Lee]

I enjoy their releases. they release films that I like and want. they have the rights to many a film that no other studios do. its so hard to find quality DVDs of Asian classics in the States so the fact that K&R are putting them on Blu-ray makes them somewhat of a godsend in my book.

[drees5761]

So your happy to pay premium price for a Blu ray that isnt really a blu ray?.
What titles have they released that are not on dvd?

[ImportFanatic]

From what I've seen, I'd go with "Nay".

[Dragon Lee]

Originally Posted by drees5761

So your happy to pay premium price for a Blu ray that isnt really a blu ray?

I dont think Im paying premuim price at all. K&R blus cost less than ur average USA/UK release. I paid $25 for Wolverine, a very very crappy movie; I paid $17 + change for Iron Monkey, an awesome movie. K&R's FS blus are more affordable than IVL's early FS DVDs from back then.

Also I dont understand the argument that these transfers are simply DVD upconverts becuz theyre clearly not. Upconverting a DVD doesnt produce detail (however minimal it may be) that wasnt there in the first place. Its just not possible. I own the Taiwanese Bangkok Dangerous blu which is truly an upscale, with bad artifacting, rampant edge enhancements, constant blurring and all. None of the K&R blus I own exhibit this. I am just as aware as the next guy that K&R's transfers are subpar but when it comes to HK catalogue releases in general, I feel its best to lower my criteria and just accept these releases for what they are. In other words, I dont buy these blus for their transfers, I buy them for the movie!

What titles have they released that are not on dvd?

Its not necessarily that theyre not on DVD. My point is that we dont get quality releases in the States. Black Mask for example: crappy Lionsgate cut with English dub only; Iron Monkey is shitty US cut with fake subs; Supercop, Operation Condor and OUATIC Trilogy dont have proper releases; Chinese Ghost Story has never been released in the States. I could go on and on.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by PGW

Ditto, that.

The "well, it's the best source available..." excuse (see the review on "All About Ah Long") doesn't fly, unless every damn 35mm copy of the film has ceased to exist. Go back to the film, re-scan it, restore it, and THEN put it out on blu-ray as hi-def.

There's no reason to settle for "second best" when it comes to Asian films.

I don't believe anyone has tried to offer any excuses, but I do believe that it is a very good idea to try and understand why certain things are as they are. It seems to me you are under the impression that there are mint ONs for a lot of the films the company is producing but they are intentionally avoiding them. This is simply not true. I know for a fact that for a large number of films there are simply no suitable HD masters, and that there are ONs that are missing/terribly damaged, etc. The Hong Kong film industry did not and still does not handle its films with the same care Hollywood does - which is why you cannot judge them with the same criteria in mind.

Furthermore, contrary to what is suggested here, upconverted DVDs and upconverted Blu-rays do not look the same: MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 compressed transfers look very, very different. Clearly, there are plenty of improvements. Lastly, Kam's Blu-ray discs are most definitely not "premium" priced. Just about all of them could be found for around 20$ a piece. So, at the end of the day you may think that this is some sort of an excuse, an apologetic stance, but all I am trying to give you is a realistic explanation of how the HK film industry functions, why certain films are not going to look any better, and why it is still a lot better to have the Blu-ray release and avoid owning the film you are interested in on SDVD.

Of course, you don't have to take my words for granted. But if you truly believe that what I have written above is some sort of an attempt to force you to settle for "second best", then I strongly suggest that you approach the Cine Asia insider we now have on the forum and question everything I have written here. Everything. My understanding is that his company is now in the process of clarifying exactly the very same issues I've addressed above. So, ask him in his thread what his impressions are about the availability of proper HD masters for classic HK films, or whether such actually exist, or whether they can exist; how the Hong Kong film industry has treated their classic films, what can and cannot be brought to Blu-ray, etc.

My only goal with these reviews has been to - in addition to promoting these films to members of our community who may not typically look into HK/Asian films - to give you a realistic explanation as to why sometimes "best" is indeed a relative term. I am not paid by the content owners to promote these releases or make them look "good". No. In fact, I have gone out of my way to make sure that we are the one site on the Net where you could come and get information about all of these releases that no one else cares to review. It is because I love these old films and truly believe that this is probably the last chance you would get to own them that I am trying to cover them, not because I want you to settle for "second best".

Pro-B

[drees5761]

Some good points well put.
I am no expert on how Blu ray's are produced, can they get a 35mm print, restore it then transfer to HD?
I realise that upconverting a dvd is not the same as watching an upconverted Blu ray but i dont want to spend my money on inferior product, if no HD master exist then i will stick with my dvd simple as that. I did a comparison of Once A Thief HKL DVD and HK Blu ray and the difference was not that great.
An example of confusion is 36th Chamber of Shaolin. The Dragon Dynasty Blu ray is apparently horrid, but the French release is excellent, how come 2 releases of the same film can be so different?
Is it that it would be possible to make HD masters of these films but the restoration costs for the company involved is too high?

"My point is that we dont get quality releases in the States. Black Mask for example: crappy Lionsgate cut with English dub only; Iron Monkey is shitty US cut with fake subs; Supercop, Operation Condor and OUATIC Trilogy dont have proper releases; Chinese Ghost Story has never been released in the States. I could go on and on. "
Dont you import dvd's?..you must import the K&R Blu rays.
Iron Monkey, Supercop, Operation Condor, OUATIC trilogy and Chinese Ghost Story have all had remastered Hong Kong dvd releases.

[Mike dk]

Releasing SD upconverts (and not dvd upconverts) can make the film look slighty better, but my main issue with this is that K&R sell their products as being "1080p High Definition" and it is just not the case.
They still try and fool people and make money from a product that they advertise as being HD when it is not. That is just wrong.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

my only goal with these reviews has been to - in addition to promoting these films to members of our community who may not typically look into hk/asian films - to give you a realistic explanation as to why sometimes "best" is indeed a relative term. I am not paid by the content owners to promote these releases or make them look "good". No. In fact, i have gone out of my way to make sure that we are the one site on the net where you could come and get information about all of these releases that no one else cares to review. It is because i love these old films and truly believe that this is probably the last chance you would get to own them that i am trying to cover them, not because i want you to settle for "second best".

Pro-b

amen!

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by Mike dk

Releasing SD upconverts (and not dvd upconverts) can make the film look slighty better, but my main issue with this is that K&R sell their products as being "1080p High Definition" and it is just not the case.
They still try and fool people and make money from a product that they advertise as being HD when it is not. That is just wrong.

But this is just advertising. We've been exposed to advertising our whole lives that false advertising applies to everything. How many other products do you normally buy that is advertised as being "good" but actually it's not as good as stated (most supermarket packaged food, for example).

When blu-ray came out, I thought that every single blu-ray would be super quality. But now that there are thousands of blu-rays available, we have seen plenty of sub-par quality releases, including Hollywood releases from big studios. And they are labeled as 1080p and/or DTS-HD as well.