Kill Baby Kill (Arrow)

[bigshot]

Last night I watched part of Arrow's new blu-ray of Mario Bava's Kill Baby Kill. The transfer is great and the sound is good. But I was puzzled by the color. It was nothing like the other Bava color films I've seen. The sets were all gray and there were just a few colors: flesh color, harvest gold, dull red and a kind of night blue. The lighting was atmospheric but the whole film looked kind of like a colorized B&W film. This morning I took some Beaver caps and turned them into B&W and I know it's sacrilege, but I actually like them better that way. I might check it out again tonight with the color turned off and see what I think.

[Anthony Thorne]

Yuck.

[bigshot]

Apparently the trailer in the US was in B&W.

Kill Baby, Kill (Operazione paura) 1966 - Black and white trailer - YouTube

Last night I watched the film in B&W and it was much more atmospheric that way. The lighting was just as dramatic as Black Sunday, and the weird camera effects were very effective. I think I'm just going to watch it in B&W from now on. I noticed in color that highlights appeared to be shot with a gold filter and fills in the shadows with blue. Occasionally there would be a small spot of red or green, but nothing like the incredible color of Black Sabbath, which I think was shot just before this. Kill Baby Kill kind of looks like the way they would light certain Night Gallery episodes... all blue and orange and brown.

It's common in lighting for B&W to light highlights warm and shadows cool to help visualize how they will read in B&W. I wonder if they thought perhaps this film might be distributed in B&W in some countries? The interview with the actress said this film was shot very fast- three or four weeks. Perhaps there was only time to work out basic lighting. But it sure does look fantastic in B&W.

[whysleep]

So, it looks like Arrow's version has the (English) credits over a freeze frame while the Koch bd has the correct Italian version of the credits, only in German, over moving shots of the girl, the castle and the village. This is present in Arrow's bd as an extra. I've seen this confirmed a couple of times, I'm just not sure if these people actually have the Arrow disc. Would anyone like to comment?

[leoganzi]

Originally Posted by whysleep

So, it looks like Arrow's version has the (English) credits over a freeze frame while the Koch bd has the correct Italian version of the credits, only in German, over moving shots of the girl, the castle and the village. This is present in Arrow's bd as an extra. I've seen this confirmed a couple of times, I'm just not sure if these people actually have the Arrow disc. Would anyone like to comment?

I haven't checked this new release but have seen the customer review on Amazon UK a few days ago.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R1Y971XKEUVHJ1/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_btm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B072K3QGTL#was ThisHelpful



P.S: And according to DVDcompare.net, the running time is the same on the Arrow and Koch releases.

http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=42059

[tenia]

If it's of any help, Arrow's runtime is 1:23:27.

[whysleep]

Originally Posted by tenia

If it's of any help, Arrow's runtime is 1:23:27.

Do you have the Arrow bd, Tenia? How are the credits, shots of the village or spikes freeze frame?

[whysleep]

Originally Posted by leoganzi

I haven't checked this new release but have seen the customer review on Amazon UK a few days ago.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R1Y971XKEUVHJ1/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_btm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B072K3QGTL#was ThisHelpful



P.S: And according to DVDcompare.net, the running time is the same on the Arrow and Koch releases.

http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=42059

Yeah, this kind of confirms it... The running time would be the same, though, the credits over the freeze frame last as long as the original ones. Although the Mondo Digital review of the German bd says the title sequence is also missing, which is puzzling, hopefully it will be addressed when Arrow's and Kino's are added for comparison.

[tenia]

I dont, I just found the info on the web and thought it might be of interest.

[Eibon]

I read on Mondo Digital too that this uses the newer scan which has the freeze-frame credits. It's unfortunate but since my Anchor Bay DVD (which has the original ones) is part of a box I'll be keeping, it's not a deal breaker. The commentary is a newer version of the one that appeared on the Dark Sky aborted release and since Arrow have carried over that disc's extras and chosen the newer commentary, I can safely presume the older commentary is redundant

[whysleep]

Originally Posted by Eibon

I read on Mondo Digital too that this uses the newer scan which has the freeze-frame credits. It's unfortunate but since my Anchor Bay DVD (which has the original ones) is part of a box I'll be keeping, it's not a deal breaker. The commentary is a newer version of the one that appeared on the Dark Sky aborted release and since Arrow have carried over that disc's extras and chosen the newer commentary, I can safely presume the older commentary is redundant

Mondo Digital confirmed on Facebook that the German bd uses the complete credits after all, not the freeze frame. In German, naturally.

[Eibon]

Originally Posted by whysleep

Mondo Digital confirmed on Facebook that the German bd uses the complete credits after all, not the freeze frame. In German, naturally.

Good to know because the review suggests all HD releases have the freeze-frame credits but doesn't state it categorically And, since the review also states the Arrow disc isn't reviewed, we just need to wait to confirm what's on the disc. Either way, my point is that I am keeping my DVD with the original sequence regardless and I'll be picking this up for the commentary and extras.

[whysleep]

Originally Posted by Eibon

Good to know because the review suggests all HD releases have the freeze-frame credits but doesn't state it categorically And, since the review also states the Arrow disc isn't reviewed, we just need to wait to confirm what's on the disc. Either way, my point is that I am keeping my DVD with the original sequence regardless and I'll be picking this up for the commentary and extras.

I know, that's why I asked them on Facebook to confirm. Still intrigued, I downloaded a rip of the German disc, just to make sure, and the credits are indeed intact. Let's see what Kino brings to the table, but it's a shame Arrow thought this was the way to go. It reminds me of when Anchor Bay freeze framed Deep Red's end credits just so they could add the English ones over it. Except in this case it's even worse, because we're missing establishing shots of the village and the girl. I honestly didn't expect this from Arrow in 2017.

[Ste7en]

Shame. I think I'll be picking this one up in a sale

[babybreese]

Bigshot's vision is indeed a curious phenomenon.

Still, there has been extensive color work done to this element and it does have an unnatural look. By far the best the film has looked on home video, but I am certainly disappointed, especially if the OCN is around and Leone does not have access to it.
So we get stuck with this.

The old Lucas commentary is hardly disposable and replaced by the newer one.
The new recording retains about 25-30% of the old track lifted directly. The rest is new, lots of old info is left out of the new track, so if you are a completest, you'll want to keep the Dark Sky dvd for that.

[Dan8700]

Non-original credits aside, I'd like to know if the booklets of the above mentioned releases list resto credits (that colour timing looks suspicious, as Bava used to film with rich colour palettes). Beaver and other sites don't list any at all, so I was wondering where did this come from... for the record, last time this was fully restored was in 2014 by Centro Sperimentale di Cinematografia-Cineteca Nazionale.

[Shingster]

Not seeing any significant sharpening in these grabs and I don't know how you can detect the movement pattern of grain in a still image. This looks good, the only real negative I can say is that grain rendition seems a little inconsistent, but then this is quite clearly a VERY grainy film. Screenshot 7 is the only one for me that looks a little "digital" on the Arrow release.

[takeasneededforpain]

From the North American forum thread about this film...

Originally Posted by houndfan

Yes, it's true; it's the freeze-frame over the spikes and that's it. The commentary puts forward an interesting justification for it, though, as far as revealing the ghost child too early and thereby extending the mystery. The longer credit sequence with the girl's feet and establishing shots of the village, etc. are included as an extra on the Arrow.

So if this Arrow version does in fact have the longer credits (just as an extra though) then is it really a big deal?? As at the end of the day, we still have both credit sequences no??

[Baron Blood]

Originally Posted by Shingster

Not seeing any significant sharpening in these grabs and I don't know how you can detect the movement pattern of grain in a still image. This looks good, the only real negative I can say is that grain rendition seems a little inconsistent, but then this is quite clearly a VERY grainy film. Screenshot 7 is the only one for me that looks a little "digital" on the Arrow release.

When we see black specks (sharpened grain) they don't disappear with the next frame...they move!
Play a movie in VLC and push the sharpen effect (or sharpen a picture in Paint.net) and you'll see the same results.

And how do you know it was a "very grainy" film?
The past DVD's prove otherwise.
The French Connection would be a very grainy film.

In the end digital over sharpening is not natural and doesn't represent what the Artist intended.
I believe these type of companies over sharpen these films or else their releases will look the same as the DVD's we already bought since they come from the same print.

[chip75]

The DVDs were hardly reference quality and the format itself isn't able to represent grain nearly as accurate as Blu-ray due to the lower resolution.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with providing a HD version of a master used for DVDs, it will just be a dated master. But from the comparisons this doesn't look like a dated master, it looks relatively recent.