Equal Representation via Films

[Falaskan]

This is something of a hot topic lately, and I don’t know how much thought has been put into it.

Many films today have been lambasted for putting story second and diversity first. The all female reboot of Ghostbusters, reviews for Black Panther, and even plot points in Star Wars. The complaints have picked up steam and seem pretty rampant all across the board.

I must ask...why do films set in different cultures (such as Gods and Kings) not get as lambasted for white washing casts? Sure it did to an extent, but nothing like films that seem to “check off diversity boxes” do.

I suppose therein lies the rub. Does it matter if they check off diversity boxes? It’s not as if all films in our history have been played by one race of actors...therefore there isn’t much logic in acting like a film that promotes diversity will automatically suffer storywise, and as you always learn in science classes, correlation doesn’t always cause causation.

With that said I think we need to admit the complaints are in the least about a plot not playing out as expected, at the worst it delves into a darker side of humanity that none of us want to admit we personally suffer from.

So I doubt every response here will be well thought out and logical, but I think this tumultuous escalation needs to stop. I think it’s a window into general society, and it seems pretty dim if you ask me.

[jacobsever]

If a role calls for an Asian character, cast an Asian actor.
If a role calls for a African character, cast an African actor.
If a role calls for a white character, cast a white actor.

So on & so forth.

It's pretty simple. Should writers be trying to cram as many persons of colors and minorities into films as possible? No, not really. But if a script calls for a character of a certain race/color, the actor portraying that should align with it.

[WestMan]

I have a problem is when the casting doesn't call for a specific race and we get a checklist one one of each race and gender. It feels forced and artificial. The Last Jedi did this. Joe Rogan pointed it out on his podcast of how forced it felt.

White washing is a garbage concept. White people are making the movies so of course they are going to put white people on the movie. I expect the same to happen if it is a Chinese film with Chinese people.

The complain about an all female oceans 8 is stupid. I don't see the problem with it. The only problem I had with Ghostbusters was that some reviews were too nice because they were afraid to offend feminists.

[NeoVisionist]

All-female casts can work (The Descent), but they're more of an exception. As a rule, it's a gimmick, just like a completely male cast would be (though a few of those work very well too, like The Thing).

I've always gravitated towards female characters, and I can't really explain why. Every script I wrote at university had a female lead even though the role was generally gender neutral. I'd like to finance & produce a short in the near future and the two leads are again female.

It's important to seperate the female/male issue and the "race" diversity issue. They aren't the same thing and any "solution" is not gonna affect both issues the same way.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by WestMan

I have a problem is when the casting doesn't call for a specific race and we get a checklist one one of each race and gender. It feels forced and artificial. The Last Jedi did this. Joe Rogan pointed it out on his podcast of how forced it felt.

Maybe if the movie took place in America, especially small town America...but it takes place a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away. Since we all know you’re referring to Rose, she’s technically an alien. We have nothing telling us she’s American or even Earthling (let’s just admit Star Wars isn’t that deep). Why is a diverse cast that unrealistic when we’re dealing with an entire universe of characters? The point is, it’s forced to you, but maybe not in the reality of the story.

Also, artificial casting shouldn’t be what ruins a movie, not in Star Wars of all movies. I guess to each their own, but I think equal representation is an admirable thing as long as it’s a well written story.

[Rodney-2187]

It would seem diversity feels unnatural to some, while the lack of it feels unnatural to others.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

It would seem diversity feels unnatural to some, while the lack of it feels unnatural to others.

You mean people are allowed to have different opinions?

[sawdustandtinsel]

Good Diversity:
-Allowing people from different backgrounds to tell their stories from their own viewpoint
-Simply keeping the cast accurate when called for(as jacobserver already said)

Bad Diversity:
-Tokening ideas or characters into stories where/when they don't belong
-Mindlessly stereotyping/whitewashing(Rooney, Olivier, and Linda Hunt come to mind)

The only that is truly diverse is individuality. If people can't extend themselves with the art they consume then we'll be having these reductive conversations for a long time. One thing that always bugged me about social media (especially twitter) is that it seems nobody wants art, they want a mirror with vanity lighting.

[WestMan]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

Maybe if the movie took place in America, especially small town America...but it takes place a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away. Since we all know you’re referring to Rose, she’s technically an alien. We have nothing telling us she’s American or even Earthling (let’s just admit Star Wars isn’t that deep). Why is a diverse cast that unrealistic when we’re dealing with an entire universe of characters? The point is, it’s forced to you, but maybe not in the reality of the story.

Also, artificial casting shouldn’t be what ruins a movie, not in Star Wars of all movies. I guess to each their own, but I think equal representation is an admirable thing as long as it’s a well written story.

I would say alien races are severely under represented in Star Wars if you want to go with that narrow viewpoint. The problem with The Last Jedi is that the good guys were diverse and the bad guys were mostly white. It should be both or neither.

The reality of life is that even with diverse populations such as the United States... most races prefer to stick with each other. I remember in high school one time... a group of black kids were playing on one side of the court and a group of white kids were playing on the other. They all knew each other and they were friendly with each other. But subconsciously they separated. So when you see a checklist of every nationality on screen... It does look odd... because that doesn't represent human nature.

Spider-Man Homecoming was another recent movie that felt like the casting was forced. Every skin color was equally represented. If they were trying to go for an authentic, 2017 NYC high level public science school, it should have been 60% asian. The casting should always feel authentic. And it really didn't.

I think there are trends in Hollywood that take place over a decade or two and then switch. In the 80's and 90's, the popular thing on TV was interracial marriage between a white and black person. Now the popular thing is same sex couples and diverse casts. The "token" gay person or couple in almost every show is obnoxious... especially when that population is only 1 to 3 percent of the actual population. Watching Grey's Anatomy with a 3rd of the doctors being black is laughable. Most doctors are white or Asian. Our entertainment should represent us as a people... not a fringe subsection that twists the norms of society.

I find an all white or Asian or black cast to be much more believable then the current trend of pure diversity on screen. It just isn't realistic.

[Splatterpunk]

Several points have been made about what's realistic and what's not. Film, by its very nature, is not real. The struggle for realism, then, is unrealistic. Why try? The more "realistic" something is, the more noticeable its "unrealistic" aspects become. I just want good films. If that involves a film with all straight white cis males, that's fine. If it has one of each subset of race/gender/orientation, then that's fine, too. I find art that's concerned with what we could be to be much more interesting than art about what we are.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by WestMan

I would say alien races are severely under represented in Star Wars if you want to go with that narrow viewpoint. The problem with The Last Jedi is that the good guys were diverse and the bad guys were mostly white. It should be both or neither.

The reality of life is that even with diverse populations such as the United States... most races prefer to stick with each other. I remember in high school one time... a group of black kids were playing on one side of the court and a group of white kids were playing on the other. They all knew each other and they were friendly with each other. But subconsciously they separated. So when you see a checklist of every nationality on screen... It does look odd... because that doesn't represent human nature.

Spider-Man Homecoming was another recent movie that felt like the casting was forced. Every skin color was equally represented. If they were trying to go for an authentic, 2017 NYC high level public science school, it should have been 60% asian. The casting should always feel authentic. And it really didn't.

I think there are trends in Hollywood that take place over a decade or two and then switch. In the 80's and 90's, the popular thing on TV was interracial marriage between a white and black person. Now the popular thing is same sex couples and diverse casts. The "token" gay person or couple in almost every show is obnoxious... especially when that population is only 1 to 3 percent of the actual population. Watching Grey's Anatomy with a 3rd of the doctors being black is laughable. Most doctors are white or Asian. Our entertainment should represent us as a people... not a fringe subsection that twists the norms of society.

I find an all white or Asian or black cast to be much more believable then the current trend of pure diversity on screen. It just isn't realistic.

They casted two main side characters with Asian actors.
Compare that to the Raimi cast.

Whats more realistic?

[WestMan]

Originally Posted by Splatterpunk

Several points have been made about what's realistic and what's not. Film, by its very nature, is not real. The struggle for realism, then, is unrealistic. Why try? The more "realistic" something is, the more noticeable its "unrealistic" aspects become. I just want good films. If that involves a film with all straight white cis males, that's fine. If it has one of each subset of race/gender/orientation, then that's fine, too. I find art that's concerned with what we could be to be much more interesting than art about what we are.

So if there was an entire Asian Avengers movie... You would watch it then?

[WestMan]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

They casted two main side characters with Asian actors.
Compare that to the Raimi cast.

Whats more realistic?

I never said the Raimi movies were realistic either.

[Impossible]

The fact this is even an issue scares me considerably....

[Steedeel]

At the end of the day, if you are good enough it doesn’t matter what the colour of your skin is. What I don’t want though, is untalented actors of any race or colour getting jobs ‘just because’.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by WestMan

I never said the Raimi movies were realistic either.

But no one complained when it was all-white, and then when they do try to reflect a truer demographic (in a newer version), its gets criticized for not being authentic. WTH?

Homecoming made progress. Its gets no reward for that. But it gets slammed for not getting it %100.

When its all-White its not an issue. When its mixed....the nitpickers emerge.

[WestMan]

Originally Posted by Impossible

The fact this is even an issue scares me considerably....

Don't be naive. Casting for major movies are done to maximize profits. There is a reason a movie like The Wall had a white Matt Damon as a lead character with an all Asian cast. To maximize profits.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by WestMan

So if there was an entire Asian Avengers movie... You would watch it then?

Would you?

Yes or No?

[WestMan]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

But no one complained when it was all-white, and then when they do try to reflect a truer demographic (in a newer version), its gets criticized for not being authentic. WTH?

Homecoming made progress. Its gets no reward for that. But it gets slammed for not getting it %100.

When its all-White its not an issue. When its mixed....the nitpickers emerge.

Nobody complained because the comics were all white and the movies were based on the comics. Homecoming didn't follow the comics when it cones to diversity. And the changes they made were not realistic. If they are going to change the source material... then at least be authentic for today's culture.

[Splatterpunk]

Originally Posted by WestMan

So if there was an entire Asian Avengers movie... You would watch it then?

Possibly. It depends. All due respect, I don't think that has anything to do with the point I was attempting to make about realism, though. That would be a conversation about what's true to characters.