Optimizing 3D's potential using Darbee Video Processors

[infiniteCR]

So i've been hearing a lot of positive things about this device for increasing the contrast of movies. I kind of passed on it for my 2D viewing since everything looks great.

On 3D films though I tend to think the image could be a bit better since the contrast ratio goes down significantly on my plasma.

I'd be interested in hearing about the differences it makes for 3D movies if anyone has set one up with 3D viewing in mind?

edit: I think I got this in the wrong 3d forum. Hopefully a mod can move it over for me. Apologies!

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

So i've been hearing a lot of positive things about this device for increasing the contrast of movies. I kind of passed on it for my 2D viewing since everything looks great.

On 3D films though I tend to think the image could be a bit better since the contrast ratio goes down significantly on my plasma.

I'd be interested in hearing about the differences it makes for 3D movies if anyone has set one up with 3D viewing in mind?

edit: I think I got this in the wrong 3d forum. Hopefully a mod can move it over for me. Apologies!

It makes the same difference as it does for 2d. It remains when used best subtle.

[HDM_fan]

Subtle is the keyword. whether 2D or 3D. I can only tell the difference when I A/B a few times with the Darbee effects on/off.

[Todd Tomorrow]

I got the 2D version, thought it was a waste of money and sent it back for a refund. I don't actually like what it does to the image. It gives the illusion of added detail, but what it really does is to mess with the cinematography, robbing the image of many subtleties.

Even if one likes the effect, I think it's overpriced for the little it does. On some forums people wax evangelically about it, which is what I fell for. There was a lot of talk that you need to use it for a week or two to REALLY notice the difference, but I think it's just people trying to convince themselves that their $300 for a gadget which does very little, was well spent.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

I got the 2D version, thought it was a waste of money and sent it back for a refund. I don't actually like what it does to the image. It gives the illusion of added detail, but what it really does is to mess with the cinematography, robbing the image of many subtleties.

Even if one likes the effect, I think it's overpriced for the little it does. On some forums people wax evangelically about it, which is what I fell for. There was a lot of talk that you need to use it for a week or two to REALLY notice the difference, but I think it's just people trying to convince themselves that their $300 for a gadget which does very little, was well spent.

Interesting.

My Darbee Darblet (3D Version) enhances visual subtleties. I appreciate the improvements to the point where over time I purchased 2 more units for my displays in different rooms. The biggest benefit was noticed after purchasing an Oppo 103D, keeping the Darblet in-the-chain for my main 65" 3D Plasma. The two combined now set at lower settings (one @ 30 pop & the other @ 30 HD), produces phenomenal realistic results.
1080P Full HD 3D now produces extremely focused and bright 3D bringing out dramatic detail. The active glasses now have no issues i can visually be aware of. I believe if the quality viewed was the standard, all programming would now be in 3D. From the finding I took my additional Darblet off the other display and connected it in a chain with a second Darblet for my 46" 3D plasma in the bedroom and that now also produces the same professional looking 3D. Enhancement seems to be the secret ingredient when it comes to depth and popout realism.

[Paul H]

This is an ongoing 3D enthusiasts home project in development which I am posting in 3D topic forums for member feedback and for any relevant information and helpful opinions.

Optimizing 3D's potential using Darbee Video Processors

This post is for those of you who love 3D and might be interested in a 3D enthusiast's opinion about what is out there that can boost stereopsis recognition. Being able to see what is available on the screen. Existing information from depth-cue's the eyes can see and the brain can interpret with conscious recognition as familiarity, while observing what seems to be real-world boundary placement. Quality 3D optimization IMO.

First I want to clarify that I personally haven't found benefits using a chain of Darbee Darblet's for 2D. For me, one-Darbee set @ 30 Hi Def, is sufficient for most viewing.

Have now tested chains of up to four Darbee's which exhibit IMO, extremely impressive positive results from a project intended strictly for 3D viewing, using only Blu-ray 3D media with various 3D displays.

Tried a number of different settings and I'll just say the Darbee's order is extremely important where each unit, set differently, is placed in the chain.

Observation experiences: Recognizing noticeable solidity of volume with increased space separation, which I compare to real-world settings. The stereopsis has a normal feeling to the eyes, which I interpret as natural to the vision boundary. A pleasant feeling adding to the visually exciting moments.

Findings: IMO, a significant 3D visual improvement. Greater image boundary involvement that impresses, which is not there without the setup.

My developing opinion as to cause and effect: Suspecting that the significant illusion changes come from greater visibility of depth-cue's, made more apparent to the eyes, which are already subtly there in native live-action real-world captured images and in CGI creations that imbed the necessary information in the images. Analyzed from various equipment settings & order placement stages, it feels natural, not like artificial apparition creations. The 3D phenomena seems to follow natural recognizable pattern flows in the images dimensional detail. Instinct interprets this as "familiar" to me as real-world appearance and placement.

It's a great thrill for me, as a 3D enthusiast, because it produces positive results!
My wife and family tell me they appreciate the difference when the system is connected and turned on and I intend to entertain company with 3D movies with the current setup during the holidays.

Also, as an enthusiast, it's important to mention that artifacting is not visibly noticeable, I believe this is because all the units are set at very low settings, but the significant computational results become profound on the displays. Just my opinion.

Thanks for listening!
__________________________________________________ ___________


Per Jrek: (From another site.)

So what are your 3d settings I use one darbee and have it at 15 full pop for 3d . Would love to know what your whole set-up is I love tweaking 3d I have found it can make a bigger difference with 3d. I use a dlp proj. And a lumagen mini along with the darbee and thats with a panasonic bluray player. Thanks for sharing I always wondered if moredarbees would make a difference. Thanks Jim

At the moment I have two different on-going projects. One has a 4 Darbee-chain-setup using Oppo 103 with Panasonic VT25 Active 3D 65" display. The second setup has a 3 Darbee-chain with Oppo 103D (as-the-fourth-Darbee), with 3D OLED headset.

Illusional 3D plane separation with both setups become IMO, *extraordinarily real-world apparent. A binocular vision good-perception-of-depth experience that gives recognizable satisfaction from Blu-ray 3Ds I've chosen to play. *( I use the word "extraordinarily" instead of "noticeably" in the first sentence of this paragraph because there is familiarity recognition taking place that this is how I see the view in the real world.)

Current setup-chains for both systems are similar: First-Unit (Darblet or 103D) set @ 30 Hi Def, Second-Unit (both Darblet's) set @ 30 Full Pop, Third Unit (both Darblet's) set @ 30 Game, Fourth Unit (both Darble's) set @ 30 Hi Def; and this seems to be important in end-placement (A setting of Hi Def at the beginning and Hi Def at the end of the chain), because it counteracts a particular intermittent noticeable artifact that sometimes develops with one live-action 3D movie with the VT25 plasma display, if it is placed in a different position.

Unit-chains connect with Monoprice 1ft 24AWG CL2 High Speed HDMI® With Ethernet Cable w_ Net Jacket - Black. Units plugin to power-up via one-switch - surge suppression bar per each setup.

[Paul H]

From the Darblet DVP-5000 FAQ page:

Can I daisy-chain two or more Darblets in series? =What is the effect?

You can daisy-chain two or more Darblets and you will notice a compounding effect. Most likely you will use a reduced setting for each Darblet.

Over the weekend I performed a project to experiment on how many Darbee Darblet's it would take in "daisy-chain" for maximum depth-cue enhancement possibility, having on-hand seven Darblet's from two different system setups.

Found that maximum visual results for reference quality 3D benefits ends with the fourth Darblet unit when each unit is set @ 30 Full-Pop, for the "strongest depth and realism" that can be produced in a "daisy-chain".

Adding a 5th Darblet starts to introduce unwelcome characteristics. Examples of "unwelcome" visuals includes the intensity in facial blemishes which would normally look subtle if not invisible. Individual skin-pores become visible on the face, where skin normally looks smooth, it starts to take on a rough look. Freckles and moles become pronounced and prominent, especially darker blemishes.

Found that when adding a 6th Darbee Darblet in "daisy-chain" the system stops working. No picture.

[Paul H]

1st system: Here is a picture of the 4 Darbee "daisy-chain" system behind Pasasonic VT25 3D 65" 3D Pasma TV:
(3 Darblets on the bottom, 1 on top of the picture)

[IMG][/IMG]


2nd system (4 DVP system) 3 Darblet's & Oppo 103D not shown: Coming from an Oppo 103D to a 3 Darbee "daisy-chain" and into a 3D Headset base (Headset is resting on base).

[IMG][/IMG]

[Blu-Dog]

Is this something popular in the UK? I've never seen one of these units for sale, or even advertised in the United States. I think it's included in some Oppo units.


The calibrators at the Video Shootout were pretty dismissive of Darbee at the show...didn't even want to discuss it.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Is this something popular in the UK? I've never seen one of these units for sale, or even advertised in the United States. I think it's included in some Oppo units.

The Darbee Darblet 5000 is sold on several sites. Amazon.com has several listings and has always been a good place for price comparison for my past holiday purchases, AVS has sold them early-on when Darbee's benefits were first discovered, and then there is always the manufacturer's original Darbee visual presence site.

Some great deals were offered in the past by the above places, but prices have gone up a few times since they have become popular.

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

The calibrators at the Video Shootout were pretty dismissive of Darbee at the show...didn't even want to discuss it.

People tend to love it or hate it on 2D forums, and little has been discussed anywhere that I'm aware of about tests and projects on 3D optimization benefits.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Is this something popular in the UK? I've never seen one of these units for sale, or even advertised in the United States. I think it's included in some Oppo units.

My residence is in the USA but there is the Oppo - Darbee Visual Processing technology (DVP) on their 103D-eu and 105D-eu European versions. And there is European Darbee Darblet 5000 - DVP-info at Home Cinema Choice.

[Paul H]

Latest settings used to maximize visual 3D illusional effectiveness for 3D space separation and 3D image clarity from Blu-ray 3D media.

Results are the following:
Using a Chain of Four Darbee Darblets:
1st Darblet closest to 3D Blu-ray player: Full POP set to 35.
2nd Darblet set to High Def 35.
3rd Darblet set to Game 35.
4th Darblet set to Full POP 30.

1st Darblet gives a needed contrast boost that clarifies and visually accentuates the 3D illusion.

2nd Darblet boosts the over-all resolution quality necessary for clear visual recognition of the images that will continue as enhancement progresses down the chain.

The 3rd Darblet, set to Game 35 increases what I call depth cue image brightness at the pixel level, allowing the darkest scenes and illusional depth of 3D films such as "Fright Night" to be visible. It's the difference from missing character action and surroundings to seeing naturally and clear, intended detail. This is additionally verified as what is visibly evident in 2D versions. Night scenes and areas with no-lighting present, become noticeably visible and naturally evident.

The 4th Darblet closest to the display, set to Full Pop, seems to be the most essential unit. It makes the optimization worth the effort, viewed in-and-out of the screen.
The 4th unit is set to 30 for two basic reasons. First, it effectively eliminates visible artifacts that occasional can manifest randomly as image "edge-noise", introduced with higher 35 chain settings. Second, the 3D-image becomes immaculately clear and window-like as if all the units are set at the lower level of 30 and most importantly the 3D illusion becomes the most pronounced.

[ZIROK]

I use Photoshop and have a plugin call AutoEye. by AutoFX.com (check it out)
been around for years and it appears that this device does the same effect as this still image plugin but applies it to Video.

[nycomet]

I picked up one Darbee unit for my BenQ 1085ST. It makes a NOTICEABLE difference (improvement) in the projected image. I have it set at 45 on the HD setting.

[Nightopian]

What exactly do these Darbee things do? Specifically in regards to 3D?

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Nightopian

What exactly do these Darbee things do? Specifically in regards to 3D?

They allow consumer setups to manifest (make visible), existing subtle essential 3D cues the brain needs to create strong stereopsis for 3D strength perception. Professional setups are already efficiently capable, though IMO, some theaters would benefit from the additional help.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Paul H

They allow consumer setups to manifest (make visible), existing subtle essential 3D cues the brain needs to create strong stereopsis for 3D strength perception. Professional setups are already efficiently capable, though IMO, some theaters would benefit from the additional help.

I'm not being cruel, but this sounds like smoke and mirrors. Who makes these cues? Why can't they be seen by standard playback equipment? Why can't they be described in plain English?


It looks like this simply boosts contrast ratio. No magic here.

[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Why can't they be described in plain English?

It looks like this simply boosts contrast ratio. No magic here.

IMO, Plain English = "Detail visibility" No magic here. Boosted contrast ratio may also mask detail via blooming distortion.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Paul H

IMO, Plain English = "Detail visibility" No magic here. Boosted contrast ratio may also mask detail via blooming distortion.

What "detail visibility" is invisible until this thing is connected? The claim that several units of these devices can be daisy-chained is very suspect indeed.


A simple explanation of how this works, without resorting to shrugs and opaque and meaningless comments like "it just looks better" would be appreciated.

[Nightopian]

Got any real world video comparisons?