Digital cinema and the death of grain?

[kristoffer]

Just saw Finchers TGWTDT and it looked amazing. This was shot on the new RED Epic and it has better shadow detailing than the RED ONE used on The Social network. One thing I do miss with digital cinema is the grain. Soon movies won't have grain anymore and I find that a little sad.

[Jimmy Smith]

Does the real world have grain? Unless your walking through a sandstorm no. Then why should movies?

I don't support destructive grain removal of old films but I think Red shot movies(particularly 3D ones) look much better especially now that they can go up to 5k and essencially equal the resolution of 35mm film

[Dubstar]

from what I've read online, Sony is releasing 'Girl with the Dragon Tattoo' in 4K for it's 4K projector's (DLP needs to get it's act together)

[WiWavelength]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Does the real world have grain? Unless your walking through a sandstorm no. Then why should movies?

Movies are an art form; they are not necessarily supposed to look like the "real world."

For many filmmakers, especially cinematographers, the film grain that is created by using different film stocks and processing techniques is part of their artistic palette.

Assuredly, some filmmakers do embrace digital capture and the "death of grain." But you will find a greater number who prefer the film medium and its traditional aesthetic that includes film grain, 24 fps motion capture, etc.

AJ

[Monkey]

The evolution of movie making is fantastic. Having the ability to shoot without grain artifacts is a huge improvement in picture quality I wish they'd up the standard framerate well above 24fps as well (the tech's been there for ages..). To think at one time movies were black and white with no movie sound. We live in great times

Think of some old movie where everything looked like it had freckles or a plague of flies in the sky, when none was actually there.

Director's can still put in grain artifacts, just as they put in colored filters, etc if they choose. Grain artifacts are the result of the dated technology and directors have far superior tools now like the RED.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Monkey

I wish they'd up the standard framerate well above 24fps as well (the tech's been there for ages..).

I'd hate that. 24fps is the visual trademark of cinema.

I'm happy that filmmakers have the option, but personally I'm not a big fan of the digital look. It is inherently more bland and sterile to my eyes, though obviously, the artistry of the photography supersedes the capture medium.

[Petey2133]

Originally Posted by WiWavelength

Movies are an art form; they are not necessarily supposed to look like the "real world."

For many filmmakers, especially cinematographers, the film grain that is created by using different film stocks and processing techniques is part of their artistic palette.

Assuredly, some filmmakers do embrace digital capture and the "death of grain." But you will find a greater number who prefer the film medium and its traditional aesthetic that includes film grain, 24 fps motion capture, etc.

AJ

Very true. Whats no black and white films? haha

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Does the real world have grain? Unless your walking through a sandstorm no. Then why should movies?

I don't support destructive grain removal of old films but I think Red shot movies(particularly 3D ones) look much better especially now that they can go up to 5k and essencially equal the resolution of 35mm film

The real world doesn't have brush strokes either but there's plenty of room in the art world for both painting and photography. I'm not adamantly opposed to digital filmmaking but I hope actual film sticks around for a good long while.

[Falconer]

Can't say I care about grain at all. Only time I notice it is when it gets in the way of a beautiful image.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Preserve what grain exists for film based productions of days gone by...

But accept the future of grain-free entertainment! The time has come for a new generation of perception folks. THE CLEARER THE IMAGE, THE BETTER!

[42041]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

But accept the future of grain-free entertainment! The time has come for a new generation of perception folks. THE CLEARER THE IMAGE, THE BETTER!

We're not talking about scientific imaging, this is an artform. In this context, clearer is clearer, grainy is grainy, and "better" has nothing to do with it.

[Snicket]

I shoot my films on a cannon 5D and still get grain In there sometimes so even digital gets grain. And the reason most people don't go above 24fps is because it tends to look cheap like a home movie while 24fps has more of a film look.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Snicket

I shoot my films on a cannon 5D and still get grain In there sometimes so even digital gets grain. And the reason most people don't go above 24fps is because it tends to look cheap like a home movie while 24fps has more of a film look.

Are you sure it isn't that most theaters are simply equipped to do 24fps, as it has been the standard for ages and would have major increase in costs to up the framerate in regards to celluloid? (the film reels are huge as is, being twice as big would be a pain to transport as well). In the digital ere the cost to increase would be much less.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Snicket

I shoot my films on a cannon 5D and still get grain In there sometimes so even digital gets grain. And the reason most people don't go above 24fps is because it tends to look cheap like a home movie while 24fps has more of a film look.

No, you most absolutely DO NOT get grain. You get noise. There's a big difference.

[AreaUnderTheCurve]

Originally Posted by Falconer

Can't say I care about grain at all. Only time I notice it is when it gets in the way of a beautiful image.

*cough* Black Swan *cough*

[Monkey]

I just remembered The Hobbit will be in 48fps

Originally Posted by 42041

TV has never had that restriction, yet every scripted TV show I know, even when all of them are shooting digital (so film cost is a non-issue), is in 24fps. It's a distinctive, cinematic look.

I've never read the statistics but I thought some TV shows were filmed at 30fps and some 60fps as well. Would be interesting to see if there was some data base that showed tv shows and their framerates.

[X12Celtics3]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

*cough* Black Swan *cough*

Black Swan looked absolutely perfect.

Anyway, I like digital filming, but I was hoping this would be on film. For a dark, gritty mystery/crime thriller, it will be a bit odd to not see any grain.

[radagast]

Originally Posted by octagon

The real world doesn't have brush strokes either but there's plenty of room in the art world for both painting and photography. I'm not adamantly opposed to digital filmmaking but I hope actual film sticks around for a good long while.

Brush strokes were the only thing we had until cameras. I wonder if there were people lamenting the death of brushstrokes when cameras came out. Talkies replaced silent movies. Color replaced (for the most part) black and white. There will always be people who resist improvements because they don't like change. Older technology is romanticized. I think we should go back to VHS tapes, and movies should be black and white and without sound. Theatre pipe organs were fine for providing music and sound effects.

[42041]

Originally Posted by radagast

There will always be people who resist improvements because they don't like change.

Or maybe because they're rarely unqualified improvements. Many fading or obsolete technologies have distinct advantages over the ones that replace them. LCD TVs, anyone?

[in2video2]

Originally Posted by 42041

Or maybe because they're rarely unqualified improvements. Many fading or obsolete technologies have distinct advantages over the ones that replace them. LCD TVs, anyone?

That's quite true and more often than not the reason change can sometimes ruin movie presentation in the cinema. Digital cinema has without a doubt improved the sound aspect of movies but in the process we have lost the old magnetic 4-Track and 6-Track soundtracks associated with the Roadshow 70mm presentation style which drew audiences in huge numbers to huge cinema auditoriums which provided huge 70mm screens which enveloped their audiences with brighter projection than we see utilized today with Digital IMAX which to many contemporary audiences is the only experience they have ever known - there is no longer in many cases an opportunity to compare the old to the new as there are very few 70mm cinemas left.