Prince: Sign O' The Times 4K UHD

[BDBert]

Just saw this: https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/GQXS-90439

Release Date: July 30, 2021

Also on Blu-ray: https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/GQXS-90440

Also on DVD: https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/GQBS-90483

[BDBert]

Company that releases this: https://wardrecords.com/page/special/prince/

[Craig-Rogers]

While excited, I'm also suspicious of a 4K release that gives no information whatsoever about it's production.

Is this a new restoration from the original negative? HDR color grade? Were they able to find a better source for the "U Got the Look" portion of the film? So many unanswered questions.

I fear this may just be a 4K upres of the blu-ray we already have.

[slimdude]

Nothing is substantiated about this release.

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by slimdude

Nothing is substantiated about this release.

Of course there is. Look at the second post in the thread, for crying out loud! The label that's putting it out has a page saying "4K Ultra HD Blu-ray" and "4K Blu-ray":




Aside from CD Japan and Ward Records, Rakuten and HMV all have the same UPC and explicitly state "4K Blu-ray" or "4K Ultra HD". (Found from a couple seconds of Googling.)

[apollo828]

I'm guessing that they're going the cheapo German route and releasing an old 2K master. (The master used on all Blus was apparently made somewhere around 2002-2004.) There's been zero word from Prince's estate regarding any sort of remaster, much less a 4K one. So, I'm not holding out much hope, especially since the website said something about "tweaking the film" or whatever.

[reanimator]

I just imported the German disc, so it would make sense if this suddenly got a 4K version. Nice concert, but super disappointed the Sheena Easton stuff was all SD quality.

[Warm Gun]

Originally Posted by reanimator

I just imported the German disc, so it would make sense if this suddenly got a 4K version. Nice concert, but super disappointed the Sheena Easton stuff was all SD quality.

I think that whole part is probably shot on video and partly intentional. It starts and ends with Prince sitting alone, as if imagining it in a kind of dream state. The low quality and prerecorded sound (no audience) at least stylistically separates the two halves of the movie.

[apollo828]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

I think that whole part is probably shot on video and partly intentional. It starts and ends with Prince sitting alone, as if imagining it in a kind of dream state. The low quality and prerecorded sound (no audience) at least stylistically separates the two halves of the movie.

IIRC, it was a pre-existing video that Prince wanted in the movie. They didn't go back and remaster it to film. They just put the video on film. That would go with Prince's tendency to just put out what he had, and not spend lots of time going over something in order to perfect it.

[BDBert]

Originally Posted by Warm Gun

I think that whole part is probably shot on video and partly intentional.

Nope, was shot on film, but edited on video.

[turbine]

Just saying that we'd love to do 4K for our German release, but the original material hasn't yet been scanned in 4K (according to my info), so I am wondering what the source for the UHD was. Could be an upscale.

[Agent Kay]

Lovely stuff, I have the amazing Mediabook but will get this if it looks good.
Shame about U got the look being upscaled tho

[turbine]

This is correct, this segment is a video to film conversion. This was probably done as editing and effects were quite expensive on film back in the day. Highlander by Russell Mulcahy does the same. There are certain transitions that could be made with video editing consoles (quickly!), whereas film was almost impossible because you'd always have to print (involving an exposure and development process). Video was instant - and it did not look that much different back in the day. Prints were usually not very sharp and also grainy, contrasty etc. Not saying film can't look beautiful, but from what I remember, most of them were just mediocre.

So there you have it.

We asked if the original elements were around when we did our BD, but apparently they don't exist, or aren't accessible. The video is (afaik) owned by Warner, but the film itself is not.

[Warm Gun]

Originally Posted by turbine

This is correct, this segment is a video to film conversion. This was probably done as editing and effects were quite expensive on film back in the day. Highlander by Russell Mulcahy does the same. There are certain transitions that could be made with video editing consoles (quickly!), whereas film was almost impossible because you'd always have to print (involving an exposure and development process). Video was instant - and it did not look that much different back in the day. Prints were usually not very sharp and also grainy, contrasty etc. Not saying film can't look beautiful, but from what I remember, most of them were just mediocre.

So there you have it.

We asked if the original elements were around when we did our BD, but apparently they don't exist, or aren't accessible. The video is (afaik) owned by Warner, but the film itself is not.

Hey, I noticed that original Dolby Stereo (2.0 PCM) mix in the 101 Films' release has more bass and punch than yours (2.0 PCM). Do you think they altered it? I'm wondering which is truer to the original mix.

A thirty second segment from 101 Films:

https://mega.nz/file/EqBShL7K#c2KXAQ...RsvWFnVttjt1Hg

Same thirty second segment from your release:

https://mega.nz/file/Q7BSyRTL#qLmd0F...CnwI88vO9nMJ34

I think they have similar dynamic range, but they definitely sound different.



Yours are the two graphs on the bottom.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by turbine

We asked if the original elements were around when we did our BD, but apparently they don't exist, or aren't accessible. The video is (afaik) owned by Warner, but the film itself is not.

Cineplex Odeon was one of the producers and Canadian distributor, with Universal handling limited distribution (TV and video?) in the US. Cineplex Odeon's catalog ended up with Alliance Atlantis (who created the HD master being used on streaming and BD releases) and now reside with FilmRise/Screen Media worldwide.

I heard the Alliance ownership at some point discarded OCNs and other pre-print film elements to several titles they controlled (The OCN of Curtains being one of them, though the 35mm IP was kept). That could be what happened to the OCN for Sign O' The Times, though the IP or an interneg might still exist within FilmRise/Screen Media's archives.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Cineplex Odeon was one of the producers and Canadian distributor, with Universal handling limited distribution (TV and video?) in the US. Cineplex Odeon's catalog ended up with Alliance Atlantis (who created the HD master being used on streaming and BD releases) and now reside with FilmRise/Screen Media worldwide.

I heard the Alliance ownership at some point discarded OCNs and other pre-print film elements to several titles they controlled (The OCN of Curtains being one of them, though the 35mm IP was kept). That could be what happened to the OCN for Sign O' The Times, though the IP or an interneg might still exist within FilmRise/Screen Media's archives.

The IMAX release also opens with FilmRise/Alliance Atlantis logos.

[turbine]

We haven't touched the 2.0; we did touch the 5.1 ones to create Atmos and Auro. We felt we did not want to mess with the original mix - we're sure this was what Prince signed off on. But you can usually make it "louder" by using the corresponding button "Loudness" on your receiver.

Sidenote: Mixes from the 80s were usually a little thin in comparison to what engineers mix today, especially for the lower frequencies. So it's always a mixed bag. You either get original sound or something that is more appealing to today's ears.

PS: I have asked the moderators to move this to the correct thread. This is about the upcoming jap. UHD.

[turbine]

To my knowledge the OCN is still in existence. I was referring to the source materials used for the video insert. This could be lost and only exist as dupe material.

[BDBert]

Originally Posted by turbine

To my knowledge the OCN is still in existence. I was referring to the source materials used for the video insert. This could be lost and only exist as dupe material.

I have vague hopes that perhaps Prince's vault contained the raw material, but AFAIK it wasn't spotted in the police photos that were released.

I'm afraid much of that material was never kept by Prince (or discarded at one point). We're still hoping for Purple Rain outtakes (the trailer contains footage not in the movie), but considering there's at least one bit in the Purple Rain movie that is in such bad condition it is barely DVD quality in the Blu-ray release...

It does appear the multi-tracks of the concert recordings used for the SOTT movie still exist, because apparently they were considered for the SOTT Super Deluxe box set released last year, but according to the Estate all materials related to the SOTT movie couldn't be used because they're part of the rights of the movie (or there is some conflict there).

[silverlakephil]

Being a Prince fan, I'd probably buy this again. The Turbine release was excellent though, really well done with the packaging, documentary. I can't understand why Warner Bros still hasn't released Purple Rain yet on 4K. I can see that selling well.