Where's the 7.1 master audio?

[mr.hidef]

Sooo many movies with DTS HD Master Audio (5.1), but what happened to 7.1? Any Ideas anyone?

[STARSCREAM]

I think that most directors only made their movies 5.1 and they don't want to mess with the original audio to mix it to 7.1. I don't know, that's just a guess. I would love if every movie was 7.1 .

[GeneD5]

since this thread already exists I am going to throw it out there... does the 7.1 add a lot to the rear soundstage?

[Darth Lavender]

I suspect it depends on how well your 5.1 audio is set up.

5.1 speakers, with the side-speakers a little behind the ears, and a good distance away, should be diffuse enough to give a pretty full soundfield.

I actually have the capacity for 7.1 audio (HTPC with 7.1 analogue output) but never bothered to set it up.

I think, partly, the issue with sound-design, is that the audience is supposed to remain focused on the screen (and the three speakers that accompany it) anything more than a bit of surround rain or thunder, and an occasionally directional effect can start to take the audience out of the movie.
(DVE (Digital Video Essentials) has some amusing demonstrations of 'too much surround sound')

It's also, I think, very interesting to note that the THX website recommends putting the two rear speakers side-by-side, essentially reducing it to 6.1 (this has something to do with the decoding matrix on certain THX products)

Audio, I think, is really reaching its saturation point. We already have excellent sound mixes like 'The Matrix' were it's literally impossible to tell the difference between DD+ and TrueHD (although, there are still other films, like Batman Begins, were the TrueHD genuinely is useful in giving better sound) and 7.1 might just be a case of overdoing it.
It is, I suspect, comparable to the old 6 track approach (5 front speakers (and 1 surround channel) where those extra two fronts are probably pretty useless.

(Actually, sitting with a 40 degree, THX recommended viewing angle, I've always wondered if the centre channel gives any particular benefit. Wouldn't the same effect be created by putting the centre channel through the side speakers? (Like most older TVs do, anyway?) Again, I'm not sure about that last part. And my knowledge on the whole area of audio is probably not that great (I've done a little reading, but I'm not anything even approaching an expert on the subject)

[JadedRaverLA]

My issue with the whole 7.1 push is that the movies aren't initially mastered in 7.1, so what's the point? I know MANY here disagree with me, but I would prefer movies stick with 5.1 on disc, and allow people with other configurations to use their receiver to adapt the source to their system. That actually allows a far greater flexibility in how you setup your home system, and with proper processing in the receiver should allow for very little difference between the output from your system and if the studio does essentially the same thing to the soundmix for storing on the actual disc.

That's just my opinion... though I don't think its that big a deal one way or the other.

Back to the OP, though... movies are mixed initially for the theatrical run where there's no such thing as a 7.1 mix. Actually SDDS has a 7.1 configuration, but it uses five speakers across the front, so its worthless for transferring to disc for home theatre use. Some studios see value in remixing the soundtrack for 7.1 home theatre configurations... others don't. It's that simnple.

[Darth Lavender]

Interesting. I suppose there is a use for 5 front speakers on the truly enormous screens.
(Actually, I just consulted Wikipedia and there is an (admittedly, unreferenced and odd sounding claim) that a lot of home theatre owners prefer that 5 2 .1 setup for 7.1 sound (for those home theatre owners with larger projector type screens, anyway)

It seems, though, there is something resembling 6.1 in theatres. The "Dolby Digital Surround Ex" system was originally created for theatres (and specifically the release of 'The Phantom Menace') That system is basically 5.1 but encoded in such a way that certain information from the surround speakers could be sent to a rear speaker (or speakers)

The next highest system (in terms of surround sound) would be "DTS-ES" which could be encoded either the same as DDex or, encoded with a completely seperate rear channel. (These two different types of DTS-ES seem to have a variety of different names)
But, I don't know if that was ever used in theatres.


As an interesting side note, which may be common knowledge. The capacity of DVD type 'Dolby Digital' and 'DTS' (if it's full-bitrate) soundtracks is actually identical to the Dolby Digital and DTS used in screenings. (Although the sound mixes themselves are sometimes changed for home viewing) Making things like PCM and TrueHD literally, unquestionably, superior on Bluray than in a theatre.
(Ironically, not knowing that, I actually thought the sound quality of 'Dark Knight' in the theatre was far better than my Lossless Audio disks. Probably because the theatre had better speakers, and at a louder volume.)

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by JadedRaverLA

My issue with the whole 7.1 push is that the movies aren't initially mastered in 7.1, so what's the point? I know MANY here disagree with me, but I would prefer movies stick with 5.1 on disc, and allow people with other configurations to use their receiver to adapt the source to their system. That actually allows a far greater flexibility in how you setup your home system, and with proper processing in the receiver should allow for very little difference between the output from your system and if the studio does essentially the same thing to the soundmix for storing on the actual disc.

That's just my opinion... though I don't think its that big a deal one way or the other.

Back to the OP, though... movies are mixed initially for the theatrical run where there's no such thing as a 7.1 mix. Actually SDDS has a 7.1 configuration, but it uses five speakers across the front, so its worthless for transferring to disc for home theatre use. Some studios see value in remixing the soundtrack for 7.1 home theatre configurations... others don't. It's that simnple.

I agree!!!

[MatintheHat]

Originally Posted by JadedRaverLA

My issue with the whole 7.1 push is that the movies aren't initially mastered in 7.1, so what's the point? ... movies are mixed initially for the theatrical run where there's no such thing as a 7.1 mix. Actually SDDS has a 7.1 configuration, but it uses five speakers across the front, so its worthless for transferring to disc for home theatre use. Some studios see value in remixing the soundtrack for 7.1 home theatre configurations... others don't. It's that simnple.

DTS-ES and DOLBY EX are 7.1 theatrical mixes. Somewhere on the DTS Theatrical Release website is a listing of movies released in DTS-ES. I seem to remember Dolby having a similar listing but that was some time ago.

What sux is that Lucas pushed heavily for theatres to invest thousands of dollars into the Dolby EX system for Episode 1. (The theatre I'm at now bought into it because they would have been denied the rights to show the film otherwise - so I'm told.) Now look - Lucas' Indy 4 wasn't even a 7.1 release and it's rare that anything is in ES or EX.

[Seiko1]

Originally Posted by GeneD5

since this thread already exists I am going to throw it out there... does the 7.1 add a lot to the rear soundstage?

"You don't miss what you've never had" applies here 100 percent.
It never occured to me that there was a hole in my soundfield until I could switch between 7.1 and 5.1 (all my 5.1 are played with extended surround now to make fake 7.1) Sounds Magnificent too

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by mr.hidef

Sooo many movies with DTS HD Master Audio (5.1), but what happened to 7.1? Any Ideas anyone?

3 movies released with 7.1 on the 29th of July that I know about and mosy Lionsgate movies will have it.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by gamma626

3 movies released with 7.1 on the 29th of July that I know about and mosy Lionsgate movies will have it.

dont forget New Line is also big on 7.1 DTS HD-MA audio

[lgans316]

OP,

If you are that desperate to experience 7.1ch audio why don't you pull the trigger on the Hong Kong Blu-rays that usually features double lossless audio tracks.

[the Bass Mechanic]

I have a few Blu-ray's with 7.1ch audio: '3:10 to Yuma', 'Pan's Labrynth' (in Spanish, no less), 'Golden Compass', and 'Dark City' (on the slow boat apparently, should have it soon). Ironicly, I have yet to listen to them all, even though I went to great pains to get a 7.1ch reciever and extra speakers when I upgraded my system 6 months ago. I did go through the AudysseyXT speaker EQ/auto-setup (with the mike at (the maximum) 8 different positions troughout the listening area) and use the 5.1/Multi-Ch + DPL-IIx modes all the time. It works pretty good with most 5.1 channel material, increasing the feeling of envelopment and decreasing the tendency to have attention pulled to a specific speaker durring louder ambient/surround effects.

As for the few 7.1 channel BD's I HAVE listened to; it's similar to the DPL-IIx extention of 5.1 ch. material, but even more effective! The biggest advantage (including 6.1 ch. or DD-ES or DTS-EX material) is having surround effects not just jump from one side to the other, but to have a smoother, more natural pan through the extra surronds, when the movie calls for it of course. While the upgrade to 7.1 is not absolutely nessesary (esp. if you already have dipole, or similarly difuse sorround speakers, or multiple speakers in parallel, like I used to have) it is something that does enhance the experience. I tried switching my LBS and RBS speakers off (after having gotten used to them) and found that I quickly missed having them.

I tried doing a search for other 7.1ch Blu-ray's on this site (goto <www.blu-ray.com/movies/search.php> and enter "7.1" (sans quote marks, of course) in the audio field. Sorry but I can't copy long URL's, and had to type that URL in, the full URL is just too long) and found 45 matches! The intersting thing is that while most of them are DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 (32), some are PCM 7.1 (12), and 3 of them are Dolby TrueHD 7.1, and that adds up to 47!?!?! I checked, and 2 of the movies have 2 of the 7.1 ch lossless formats on them: 'The Final Countdown' (DTS and Dolby 7.1ch) and 'Protege' (DTS and PCM 7.1ch)! What's more; 'Protege' has Cantonese and Mandarin Dolby Digital EX 6.1ch audio too!!! One of the titles I have on pre-order 'The Nighmare Before Christmas' is one of the 3 to have Dolby TrueHD 7.1, when all this time I'd gotten so used to DTS or PCM 7.1, that I was convinced that it was DTS -HD MA 7.1ch audio.

Apparently some studios seem to favor DTS-HD Master Audio, and some prefer Dolby True-HD, I'm just glad they both take up a lot less disc space than LPCM (more room for a better video encode, and/or extras), and with no loss of signal data at all! Just out of curiosity, I also checked how many there are of each lossless audio format (5.1ch or better) and (drum-roll please!): PCM-236, Dolby TrueHD-169, and DTS-HD Master Audio-199! Most of the PCM multi-channel Blu-ray's are older titles (released mostly 2006-2007), while most of the newer titles use the Dolby and/or DTS lossless codecs! Also, most of the discs with 7.1 ch. audio are newer, and we should see more and more 7.1 ch. discs in the future,... yippie!

[Giyomu]

I've always listened to dolby digital 5.1 until yesterday,
I just bought my new receiver

I can finally listen to DTS HD & dolby True HD tracks, PCM...

so even 5.1 is making me so happy for now
maybe I'll want 7.1 in the next few weeks or months

[jw]

Originally Posted by lgans316

OP,

If you are that desperate to experience 7.1ch audio why don't you pull the trigger on the Hong Kong Blu-rays that usually features double lossless audio tracks.

Shouldn't have to import them, These movies should be released that way without having to ask

[Davekyn]

Thats teriffic news about disney... DIY-HD...I'm glad you got some things out of the article Sounds like you got a decent setup going. I was impresed that my avr gave me the option to use a mic (suplied) for an automatic setup. Technology stills seems to be leaping ahead in leaps and bounds these days.

Like many others out there, I will be jumping at the chance to try out 7.1 when indeed there is plenty of Titles to pick from in an uncompressed format...and buy the sounds of it, we may not have to wait that long.

[Dicmatic]

Originally Posted by mr.hidef

Sooo many movies with DTS HD Master Audio (5.1), but what happened to 7.1? Any Ideas anyone?

I know that Lionsgate and New Line Cinema's are using Dts hd 7.1. Universal seems to be using 5.1 though...

[Canada]

I don't care about 7.1 all I care about is if the disk is lossless.