Question about Receivers & HD Audio

[pokefan]

First off, Hello everyone!

Alright, question. I'm using a PS3 for BD playback which as far as I know supports these two. If I were to get the Onkyo HT-R560 will the PS3 pass on the audio in it's original format and I'll get the DTS MA and THD to the speakers?

I was going to get the Onkyo 5100 but if I can get the audio passed to the receiver then I'll hold off and get better speakers instead of the ones that come with the system.

And for a little help, (I'm new can you tell yet?) Here's my plan if I can go this route.

Onkyo 560
Polk CS10
Polk R50 fronts
Polk Monitor 30 x4
No Idea what I want for a sub yet.

I know it's a fairly basic setup but it's got to be better then what comes with the 5100 and it will be more then enough for me. I figure I can get this whole set up for somewhere around $700 with a little shopping.

[Steve]

The Onkyo TX-SR507 is the lowest model receiver by Onkyo that can handle your PS3's lossless audio. The 576 can't, but I'm sure when the new 577 comes out that it will be able to. Every other model above that can as well too.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by pokefan

Alright, question. I'm using a PS3 for BD playback which as far as I know supports these two. If I were to get the Onkyo HT-R560 will the PS3 pass on the audio in it's original format and I'll get the DTS MA and THD to the speakers?

If you are asking whether the PS3 can bitstream dts-MA and TrueHD to a receiver for decoding, the answer is no. That's not in the PS3's bag of tricks. It will decode those formats and send the resulting PCM to your receiver. It's the same audio, just decoded in the player instead of the AVR.

The receiver needs HDMI 1.1 and it needs to process audio over HDMI. Some of the cheaper AVRs just do HDMI switching and require a separate optical connection for audio. That's what you need to avoid when shopping for your new AVR.

[pokefan]

Originally Posted by BIslander

If you are asking whether the PS3 can bitstream dts-MA and TrueHD to a receiver for decoding, the answer is no. That's not in the PS3's bag of tricks. It will decode those formats and send the resulting PCM to your receiver. It's the same audio, just decoded in the player instead of the AVR.

The receiver needs HDMI 1.1 and it needs to process audio over HDMI. Some of the cheaper AVRs just do HDMI switching and require a separate optical connection for audio. That's what you need to avoid when shopping for your new AVR.

So if I'm reading this right the PS3 will decode the audio so the receiver doesn't have to, so I would be hearing the TrueHD and dts-MA from the speakers. Right?

[rlf3911]

Negative you would not be hearing hd sound. You'd need atleast an onkyo 605.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by pokefan

So if I'm reading this right the PS3 will decode the audio so the receiver doesn't have to, so I would be hearing the TrueHD and dts-MA from the speakers. Right?

Yes.

TrueHD and dts-MA are actually just different types of zip files that are used to save space on a disc. They have to be decoded (unzipped) back into PCM. Then, the PCM is processed to produce audio. It doesn't matter whether the decoding happens in the player or the receiver. The PCM produced by decoding is identical either way.

Originally Posted by rlf3911

Negative you would not be hearing hd sound. You'd need atleast an onkyo 605.

That is not correct for the reasons explained above. In fact, a receiver with HD decoders would be of no value to you because the PS3 can't bitstream the new codecs. You'd need to get a different player to pair with a decoding receiver. And, the audio quality would be no better.

[Steve]

What the OP needs to stay away from is the phrase HDMI pass-through. If this describes any receiver you're looking at, it won't give you lossless audio from your PS3. It doesn't matter if it says V1.1 or V1.3 or whatever. Take a look at the Onkyo 307 to see what I mean. It claims to be V1.3a, but then it's only pass-through. If you want an Onkyo receiver that can give you lossless audio from your PS3 you need either the new 507 or the 606 or higher. Stay away from the 576.

[pokefan]

Originally Posted by fireman325

What the OP needs to stay away from is the phrase HDMI pass-through. If this describes any receiver you're looking at, it won't give you lossless audio from your PS3.

Alright, so the 560 is out of the question as far as TrueHD and dts-MA goes. Honestly I'd rather my money go towards better speakers at this point. With that in mind, what do you guys think would be a better investment, a 5.1 receiver with the decoding capabilities or a 7.1 w/o? Is there a 5.1 setup with the capabilities in the $250 range? I have nothing against second hand and refurb, I doubt I'd find anything in that range new anyway.

As far as speakers go, I found a pair of Paradigm towers today at our local Audio store that were used at $300 for the pair. I can't remember what they were now (monitors maybe?) but like I said they were towers and probably 6" wide and 8-10" deep and they were black. Anyone familiar with these? Would you suggest the Polk R50 or the Paradigms as fronts?

Sorry for all the (possibly dumb) questions but I have no clue when it comes to home audio and this will be my first setup.

edit: after a bit more looking today, I'm about 90% sure the speakers were Paradigm Monitor 7's.

[Steve]

This Sony receiver will do the job for $300 brand new. You may be able to find a used/refurbished one for a little less. It won't decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA, but it does specify it will decode LPCM over HDMI. The PS3 decodes these formats internally and sends them out over HDMI as LPCM. This receiver would be perfect with your PS3.

[BIslander]

If I were buying a new receiver, I'd get one with TrueHD and dts-MA decoding. There isn't much added cost and even though you don't need decoding with a PS3, it may limit your choices in future purchases.

[pokefan]

Originally Posted by BIslander

If I were buying a new receiver, I'd get one with TrueHD and dts-MA decoding. There isn't much added cost and even though you don't need decoding with a PS3, it may limit your choices in future purchases.

Honestly I don't have the money to put towards a better receiver. It comes down to a nice receiver or better speakers at this point and since the PS3 will do the decoding for me why spend it on a receiver. I don't mind upgrading a receiver down the line but I want better sound then what's provided with low end speakers. It will be a couple years before I can put much more money into this system so I figure I can hold off on the receiver and I won't feel like I wasted $200-250 if I hold on to this one for a couple years any way.

Fireman, thanks for all the help. I look into that one some more and it looks like a perfect match for the PS3!

[BIslander]

I agree that better speakers are more important than a receiver. I guess I don't understand what you have now. I was under the impression you were asking about the minimum requirements in a new AVR to get HD audio from your PS3.

[pokefan]

Originally Posted by BIslander

I agree that better speakers are more important than a receiver. I guess I don't understand what you have now. I was under the impression you were asking about the minimum requirements in a new AVR to get HD audio from your PS3.

Sorry, I have nothing as of right now except an LCD and the PS3. I'm starting fresh with no audio equipment what so ever.

And you're correct I was asking about the min. requirements to match to the PS3. That way I can the best yet cheapest option available so that I can put more money towards the speakers.

[Adam.C]

First of all if you a cheap reciever but nice speakers your sound may suck. Your receiver is your amp, and if you underpower your nice speakers, your missing the boat. My Yammy is "rated" at 95w/ch, and I notice distortion at reference levels because I need a better amp. Thats why I am now looking at an Emotiva amp to add.

And I disagree that HD sound is the same no matter what is handling the decode. A nice receiver will always produce a better sound

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Adam.C

And I disagree that HD sound is the same no matter what is handling the decode. A nice receiver will always produce a better sound

Of course. And not relevant to where the decoding takes place. With digital, the receiver does all processing (ALL processing) regardless of where the decoding takes place. Decoding merely unzips the compressed file turning it back into PCM, which gets sent to the AVR for processing. A good receiver improves the audio in either case.

Originally Posted by pokefan

Sorry, I have nothing as of right now except an LCD and the PS3. I'm starting fresh with no audio equipment what so ever.

And you're correct I was asking about the min. requirements to match to the PS3. That way I can the best yet cheapest option available so that I can put more money towards the speakers.

The price differential between an AVR that processes PCM and one that has HD decoders is not significant. In fact, it's getting harder to find AVRs with HDMI that lack HD decoders these days.

[repete66211]

Your first concern is getting a receiver that handles PCM audio (or any audio) via HDMI. It does not matter if your receiver decodes the "HD audio" formats because, as you know, the PS3 decodes them. (For that matter, virtually all new Blu-ray players decode HD audio formats, so it's not necessary to have a receiver that decodes now or in the future.) So it doesn't matter if your player or your receiver does the decoding. Many people will argue you hear the exact same audio either way. I have yet to see evidence suggesting otherwise.

There are very few 7.1 soundtracks available right now. Granted, some receivers can matrix the 5.1 into 7.1, but that's additional processing that I would rather not take place. Personally, space limitations dictate that I have 5.1 rather than 7.1, but even if I had room I still wouldn't go with a 7.1 setup unless I was bored and extremely wealthy.

So you're right when you say most of your money should be spent on speakers rather than a receiver. Just make sure the watts/channel and impedence (ohms) match and you're good to go.

A good mid-range starter setup can be found with Polk Monitors. Check the Hot Deals board for a killer deal on Monitor 60s. Those along with Monitor 30 rears and a CS1 center are a very cost-effective setup. A good sub can be had for $350 or so.

[pokefan]

Originally Posted by repete66211

Check the Hot Deals board for a killer deal on Monitor 60s.

Thanks!! Pulled the trigger on the 60's. Still don't have a receiver but I figure that can wait for a deal like that!

[repete66211]

Originally Posted by pokefan

Thanks!! Pulled the trigger on the 60's. Still don't have a receiver but I figure that can wait for a deal like that!

Good to hear. I'm envious. I bought my 50s too soon. Patience pays.

Have you looked at the Onkyo 507? It's a pretty good deal at $344 (Amazon).

[pokefan]

I'll look into it a bit more when the time comes. I've been trying to hunt down the Sony posted above for the time being but there's not much of a price difference so we'll see what I can squeeze out when the time comes.