24p Help

[Kieran]

I have a Samsung 786 TV (40in) and a Panasonic DB30 Blu Ray player.

Call my stupid, but i have only just stumbled across the 24p mode on my BR player and switched it on after a good few months. I have read online that my TV does support 24p.

I have searched online and can't really make sense of what switching this feautre on will do. I understand that it is to do with frames per second, but will it REALLY make a difference to watching BRs?

And will i need to keep on turning 24p on and off for different purposes?

Hope someone can help with this as i want to make sure i am getting the best out of my setup

Thanks

[phantompwr]

Any movies made on film were originally shot with still photos taken 24 times a second. On DVD, this had to be converted to fit into the 60 frames used by TVs. Now, Blu-rays are encoded so that they keep the original 24 frames per second, and the newer TV's are able to display it without converting it to fit into a 60 hz framework. This results in a picture that replicates the way the film should look, as it does in a movie theater.

[Kieran]

Ah thank you for that

So i should have this switched on in my BR player settings and just leave it? Is it therefore a superior pictuare quality? I noticed that it states 24p in the top right corner when i put a BR disc in.

[raskal66]

Originally Posted by Kieran

Ah thank you for that

So i should have this switched on in my BR player settings and just leave it? Is it therefore a superior pictuare quality? I noticed that it states 24p in the top right corner when i put a BR disc in.

It doesn't really change picture quality. It displays the pictures as you would see them in the theater. The shots that are still are incredibly detailed and there is a slight blur outside the focus area in quick action.

It doesn't make the picture better, per se. It merely presents the film on your TV the way it would closely look if played in a theater.

[Kieran]

Ah now this is all making sense, thanks guys.

So... better to have on or off? Will it do no harm, or hardly any difference in reality to have it on? What's the general consensus?

[Blu-rob77]

Noob here i have a ps3 so do i have 24p on or off? my tv is a 52lg70 its it 24p there is a real cenima mode on it does change it on or off or is 24p allways on on the tv can any one help me too! thanks

[dTm]

turn 24p ON if you can so you don't have duplicate frames/3:2pulldown, everything will look as it should

[Kieran]

Originally Posted by dTm

turn 24p ON if you can so you don't have duplicate frames/3:2pulldown, everything will look as it should

So if it off, some frames a skipped? Is this correct?
thanks for the help.

[DarkDune]

We started turning OFF 24p on our PS3 and Sony KDL-40XBR4 and have Motion Enhancer on HIGH, and turned OFF CineMotion -- and we get MUCH better motion for all source (Blu-ray, DVD, DirecTV, etc.).

Here is an article that got me thinking about turning OFF 24p, and I am happier for it:

The Big Judder Problem and the Overhyping of 24p

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by Kieran

So if it off, some frames a skipped? Is this correct?
thanks for the help.

No they won't be skipped, just some frames will be repeated more often than others. If it's off, and it's outputting at 60hz, some frames will be shown 3 times, others 2 times, leading to uneven motion judder, or "3:2 pull-down judder".

If it's on, and you have a compatible TV eg. one capable of accepting 24p and outputting at a multiple of 24 each frame will be shown for the same length of time. eg. a 120hz TV will show each frame 5 times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

We started turning OFF 24p on our PS3 and Sony KDL-40XBR4 and have Motion Enhancer on HIGH, and turned OFF CineMotion -- and we get MUCH better motion for all source (Blu-ray, DVD, DirecTV, etc.).

Here is an article that got me thinking about turning OFF 24p, and I am happier for it:

The Big Judder Problem and the Overhyping of 24p

If you have a TV capable of 24P, which may display at 48, 72, 96 or 120 Hz, it looks better with PS3 set to 24P, IMO. The motion interpolation feature some times makes a mess and it is not recommended.

[DarkDune]

Originally Posted by syncguy

If you have a TV capable of 24P, which may display at 48, 72, 96 or 120 Hz, it looks better with PS3 set to 24P, IMO. The motion interpolation feature some times makes a mess and it is not recommended.

I agree, but with the Sony CineMotion set to OFF, that is a non-issue. With 24p set to ON, I still notice judder -- likely due simply to the 24 frames per second physics -- so we turned it off. Do you have a Sony HDTV?

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

I agree, but with the Sony CineMotion set to OFF, that is a non-issue. With 24p set to ON, I still notice judder -- likely due simply to the 24 frames per second physics -- so we turned it off. Do you have a Sony HDTV?

I think this is mostly a problem with LCD's. I think the OP has a Sammy plasma and I have a Panny plasma and honestly can't really tell much if any difference between 24 and 60.

[DonRSD]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

I think this is mostly a problem with LCD's. I think the OP has a Sammy plasma and I have a Panny plasma and honestly can't really tell much if any difference between 24 and 60.

i cant really tell a difference either, though i set my ps3 to 24p ON

thank god i have a panny plasma

[syncguy]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

I agree, but with the Sony CineMotion set to OFF, that is a non-issue. With 24p set to ON, I still notice judder -- likely due simply to the 24 frames per second physics -- so we turned it off. Do you have a Sony HDTV?

We have a plasma. But this was checked on a Sony vw60 Lcos projector. When PS3 is set to 24P, the projector locks into 24P and has film like motion for movies - it is clear but can see the frame motion. If PS3 is set to 24P-off, could see some judder in some cases but generally looks similar to 24P. However, we like 24P mode for the movies. So the PS3 is always set to 24P. If blu-ray is not 24P it automatically change the mode.

This is the mode I would recommend if PS3 is used. However, you may test and select a mode of your choice.

[MrRoy]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

I think this is mostly a problem with LCD's. I think the OP has a Sammy plasma and I have a Panny plasma and honestly can't really tell much if any difference between 24 and 60.

It isn't an LCD problem, let's not get anyone confused. Read the article posted above, it is natural for 24p to have judder. If you go watch a movie in the theater, you can see it there. So, you will see 24p judder on a plasma as well.

I will state this, though. One of the firmware upgrades on the BDP-S350 reduced this judder drastically. The beginning of Harry Potter OOTP had it really bad when panning down on the playground. It is there still, but at about 40%.

[DarkDune]

Originally Posted by MrRoy

It isn't an LCD problem, let's not get anyone confused. Read the article posted above, it is natural for 24p to have judder. If you go watch a movie in the theater, you can see it there. So, you will see 24p judder on a plasma as well.

I will state this, though. One of the firmware upgrades on the BDP-S350 reduced this judder drastically. The beginning of Harry Potter OOTP had it really bad when panning down on the playground. It is there still, but at about 40%.

Exactly why I turn off 24p ...Try it, you might like it

[keyzone72]

I have a Yamaha BD-S2900 blu-ray player that goes to a Pioneer Elite Pro-111FD that both support 24p. When I read about "24p," I admit, I didn't really understand the benefits. This is one of those things where most people won't notice a major difference. Here's what I determined:

I played one of the Austin Powers blu-ray movies with 24p disabled on both the blu-ray player and plasma TV. When the movie starts and the animated title ("Austin Powers") scrolled upwards towards the center of the screen, it was definitely shakey and jittery. It wasn't so bad that I thought something was broken. And I think many people might not of even noticed, but it was definitely not smooth.

Now......

I then swithed on 24p on both my blu-ray player and plasma TV and watched the same scene again to see how that scrolling movie title behaved this time. This time, the "Austin Powers" title scrolled up to the center of the screen with absolutely no shakiness or jitter. It was silky smooth and much more pleasant to watch.

Although the purpose of watching movies is not to focus on reading and analyzing the text that comes onto the screen, it does help us better understand how much smoother things can look in a movie when played back on a player and TV capable of supporting 24p.

Based on this analysis, I can only assume that movies filmed in 24p that have scenes with alot of motion (waterfalls, car chases, battle scenes, etc..) will benefit from being played on a home theater system that supports 24p.

Hope this helps.......

[MrRoy]

Originally Posted by DarkDune

Exactly why I turn off 24p ...Try it, you might like it

The judder doesn't bother me. For kicks though, I will turn it off tonight and watch a movie and see which I like better.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by MrRoy

It isn't an LCD problem, let's not get anyone confused. Read the article posted above, it is natural for 24p to have judder. If you go watch a movie in the theater, you can see it there. So, you will see 24p judder on a plasma as well.

Motion blur and judder is most certainly a problem with LCD.