HP Change's it's mind on Blu-ray

[Sony1]

It seems HP is rethinking it's one sided stance on Blue-Ray.

http://news.com.com/HP+backs+both+ri...3-5998824.html

[thunderhawk]

"Because HP wants to deliver the most user-friendly and cost-effective solution to our customers, we have decided to support both formats," said Maureen Weber, general manager of HP's personal storage division, in a statement.

Wot??? This is false! Damnit. It doesn't help costumers if you got 2 formats...

[Alex Pallas]

*****es aint shit

[zombie]

I agree with the others, HP can kiss off if they think they're helping consumers by supporting BD and HD-DVD. I'll thank them for their misservice by not buying another HP product.

[Alex Pallas]

Originally Posted by n2blu

I agree with the others, HP can kiss off if they think they're helping consumers by supporting BD and HD-DVD. I'll thank them for their misservice by not buying another HP product.

i would say the same but HP products are too low quality for my tastes anyway

[thunderhawk]

Another one:
http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.j...leID=175004773

MADISON, Wis. — Embroiled in industry politics over next-generation high-definition optical disk formats, Hewlett Packard Co. on Friday (Dec. 16) reversed course by officially joining the competing HD-DVD group while maintaining its ties with the Blu-ray Disc camp.

While a majority of Hollywood studios have already extended support for Blu-ray, the next-generation DVD format battle is far from over. Hollywood will decide, like last time with DVD.

HP’s justification for straddling the fence was the "unreasonable cost we have to bear in supporting the Blu-ray format," Argh scr*w you! Blu-ray exists because of royalities issues! which uses Java, said Maureen Weber, general manager of HP's Personal Storage Business unit.

Overall Blu-ray royalties total $30 per PC drive, Weber said. In contrast, everything PC vendors need to support HD-DVD "comes free, shipped and integrated with Vista — Microsoft Corp.’s next generation operating system," she added. Many PC companies have no choice but to support Microsoft Vista in the Microsoft-dominant operating system market.

Weber said Java-based Blu-ray format royalties include: licensing the GEM (Globally-Executable MHP) standard; the cost of a Java test kit from Sun Microsystems; and the cost of BD Java. While the licensing costs PC vendors must support HD-DVD remain unclear, HP has been assured by Microsoft of "roughly a 10-percent addition to cost of the current DVD drive,” Weber added. Comment: What? No facts?? What kind of a deal is this?

The bottom line for Microsoft is that PCs don’t need Java because they already offer interactivity. Doesn't HP have to pay royalties for that?? In contrast, consumer electronics companies need Java to make their end products interactive. Just as consumer electronics manufacturers regard integrating Microsoft’s Windows operating system as overkill, HP considers Java in a PC platform to be too costly. The format dispute has already split the computer industry. PC makers Dell and Apple Computer are aligned with the Blu-ray camp while PC suppliers like Microsoft, Intel, Toshiba and NEC are backing HD DVD.

HP appears to be straddling the fence, observers said.

In October, Weber warned of "legal implications if Microsoft is using its dominance in the operating system market — virtually a monopoly — to play favorites and hurt the competition."

What changed? HP’s Ultimately, Weber said, "It’s about money” and 'the cost to the PC industry" that forced HP to join the HD DVD camp. {end of article}

My comments are the lines in italic. And it won't make much difference. HP doesn't have a lot in consumer electronics apart of PC stuff. HD DVD doesn't have another content supplier, just a PC manufacturer and maybe some HD DVD drives -> thats bad for Toshiba and NEC It doesn't make sense, HP joined the HD DVD side because they had to pay 2 much for Blu-ray, however they stay in the Blu-ray Disc Association. Are they saying "supporting 2 formats is less expensive then one"? That just doesn't make sense 2 me.

[zombie]

I think HP is betting that they can sway another studio over to HD-DVD with them. I believe they're wrong simply because the industry as a whole is already behind Blu-ray. This is an act of desperation on HP's part. I doubt they're serious about HD-DVD cause they can see it's dead in the water as easy as we can. They're probably just using their HD-DVD support as leverage to get a better deal with BD.

[MiThRaZoR]

I don't really get it. If they support both formats. Then they are just wasting more money. And by the way, I know Blu-Ray will be successful. They have the PS3 and it's actually getting advertised right now.

For example, I got a email yesterday about the Blu-Ray technology forwarded 3 times. And I forwarded. It was the same information in "What is Blu-Ray", I'm starting to not like HP anyway. The only reason they are a pretty big company is because public schools buy them.

[Gorkab]

Supporting both formats will make them lose less money ? What the f*** is with those guys ? Why didn't they support the DVD-R in that case ? They would have support both format so in ther logic, they would have lost less money ! So why did they only sold DVD+R burners ? , that's completely nonsense !

[Shadowself]

in this forum before, this is nothing more than Microsoft's backroom arm twisting. Microsoft is bringing everything they can to bear on certain companies to get them to support HD DVD since it supports iHD, a Microsoft proprietary technology. Microsoft is very powerfull in that back room. That's where they have always done their most unscrupulous work. Think back to all the "pay us for every box shipped even if it does not have MS-DOS or Windows on it" deals they forced many PC makers to do. This arm twisting in order to get the PC makers (HP in this case) is no different.

Supporting HD DVD will cost less? It seems extremely unlikely Microsoft will give away for free all access to iHD and its components. Development environments will most certainly NOT be free. What percentage of companies out there get their development environments free in order to develop software for the Windows OS?

Contrast this with the other computer makers, such as Apple, that have no stake in this other than getting the best technology out the door. Apple does not own any piece of iHD or Java. No matter which one is chosen Apple will not make a penny of either one (from royalties).

[assur191]

You have to wonder how much of this arm twisting by Microsoft is a direct affront to Sony. They may not really care about HD-DVD, just that it is the competition to sony. Maybe they think that if they can make HD-DVD win, not only will Sony lose the format war, but the PS3 will lose a lot of its appeal and give the X360 a bigger chance. Just a thought....

[phloyd]

This certainly appears to be M$ trying to stick it to Sony and Java.

I have Java on my PC - didn't cost me anything.

Wouldn't it be great to have proof that M$ is being anticompetitive - I would love to see another lawsuit against them.

Cheers!

[Blackraven]

It doesn't matter to me because I don't buy a lot of there products.

I only like their printers, scanners, etc.

Anything else (such as their PCs and other electronics shit), I don't buy them at all.

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Blackraven

It doesn't matter to me because I don't buy a lot of there products.

I only like their printers, scanners, etc.

Anything else (such as their PCs and other electronics shit), I don't buy them at all.

Agreed. I have an HP printer/scanner/copier which does a good job but the HP PC I used to have sucked monkey balls so I won't buy one of them again.

[Gorkab]

Originally Posted by n2blu

the HP PC I used to have sucked monkey balls so I won't buy one of them again.

Same here ! Never bought one but when I used one...

[Blue]

Originally Posted by phloyd

SNIP
Wouldn't it be great to have proof that M$ is being anticompetitive

Microsoft being anticompetitive - NEVER well except when they were being fined a small fortune for being anticompetitive to that browser anyone remember Netscape! and so many other times they have been suspected of such games.

Interesting thought this may be about the game consoles more than anything else - I like the logic.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by Blue

Microsoft being anticompetitive - NEVER well except when they were being fined a small fortune for being anticompetitive to that browser anyone remember Netscape! and so many other times they have been suspected of such games.

Interesting thought this may be about the game consoles more than anything else - I like the logic.

Microsoft has had two separate anti-trust criminal actions taken against it. Most people don't know of or remember the first one. The first one never went to trial and Microsoft just settled with the government.

The second one got started by Microsoft violating the consent decree from the first where Microsoft agreed to stop its predatory tactics. The Netscape issue was just one of several points where Microsoft violated the original consent decree. (I say "violated" rather than "supposedly violated" because Microsoft was convicted and an appeals court upheld that conviction. The appeals court just didn't like the original penalty imposed and forced the lower court to redo the penalty.)

The outcome of BOTH criminal processes against Microsoft was a simple agreement to not do it again. The second time around Microsoft even got to name one of the three people on the oversight board and have significant input into the choice of a second. Thus Microsoft effectively gets to pick two of the three people overseeing the current consent decree.

Thus, in the U.S. (which is the one which included the Netscape issue) Microsoft was not fined a penny -- let alone a small fortune. Microsoft was fined a small fortune in Europe over the Windows Media Player issue and forcing manufacturers to include it with Windows. Microsoft was also fined a very, very small fortune (for Microsoft anyway) over other issues as well. IIRC Microsoft has been able to put off paying those fines while the cases are on appeal.

Will Microsoft ever stop its predatory practices it utilizes to maintain and/or expand its monopoly? I doubt it. Just recently it got haulled back into court in the U.S. and the judge admonished it for sending out statements to its large customers which absolutely violated the current consent decree. Microsoft claimed it was all one marketing person's fault and yet again promised to never do it again.

This whole HP issue with HD DVD versus Blu-ray Disk is just one more example of Microsoft pushing its customers around.

Is it a move by Microsoft to extend there monopoly and get a commanding share of the gaming market? Maybe. It would be more obvious if Microsoft came out and claimed they would ONLY ship HD DVD on the next generation/upgrade of the Xbox. It would also be more obvious if Microsoft said their home multimedia initiatives are going to only use HD DVD in the future.

However, it may be much simpler. If HD DVD wins the format war then Microsoft is guaranteed a steady revenue from licensing iHD and development environments for iHD.

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by Shadowself

However, it may be much simpler. If HD DVD wins the format war then Microsoft is guaranteed a steady revenue from licensing iHD and development environments for iHD.

I tend to believe this is the thrust - I think they want to displace Java and replace it with their own shit. It wouldn't be the first time that they have tried to do this...

[hmurchison]

The problem is that iHD is better than Java for interactivity. HP simply came to their senses on this one.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

The problem is that iHD is better than Java for interactivity. HP simply came to their senses on this one.

I have read nowhere (unbiased or otherwise) that states explicitly that iHD is signifiantly better than the Java based system being utilized by Blu-ray Disk.

Can you point us to a source or maybe even several sources (hopefully unbiased) which directly compares the capabilities of these two (iHD versus BD's Java based system)?

Otherwise I'll just keep believing what I've read and heard -- that these are two basically equivalent ways to do the same thing: neither is significantly better than the other.