MGM & TWC: What Do You Think Caused Their Downfall?

[OrlandoEastwood]

Well, seeing as two major studios are mostly going to be closing shop in the next couple years; let us have a discussion on what we think caused their downfall.

MGM:

I personally feel that a lot of the films that they were making were not appealing to me in the slightest. Some of these films being; Agent Cody Banks; Beauty Shop; Blood and Chocolate; College; Superhero Movie; and Who's Your Caddy? to name a few. Except for the 007 films, MGM pretty much shot themselves in the foot and made horrible films. And, if memories serves correctly; wasn't MGM hailed as one of the greatest studios at one point in their history? Yikes.

TWC:

I felt that Harvey was throwing around more money that his studio could make back. Plus, spending a lot of time on shoddy straight to video films like the Pulse and Feast sequels. I was pissed that I had spent $10 on the Feast sequels at Blockbuster when I lived on the Big Island. Plus, Harvey would keep delaying movies and eventually putting up on limited releases with like six theaters screening the film; for example, Fanboys and The Road. If Harvey wanted to keep people; he should have focused on Sin City 2 and had that made ASAP. If I remember correctly, Sin City was like the highest grossing film for TWC back when it first started up.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by OrlandoEastwood

TWC:

I felt that Harvey was throwing around more money that his studio could make back. Plus, spending a lot of time on shoddy straight to video films like the Pulse and Feast sequels. I was pissed that I had spent $10 on the Feast sequels at Blockbuster when I lived on the Big Island. Plus, Harvey would keep delaying movies and eventually putting up on limited releases with like six theaters screening the film; for example, Fanboys and The Road. If Harvey wanted to keep people; he should have focused on Sin City 2 and had that made ASAP. If I remember correctly, Sin City was like the highest grossing film for TWC back when it first started up.

I agree with what you said about MGM.

But Weinstein has been circling the bowl for pretty much as long as they have been in existence.

I mean, any company that releases a movie called "Hallowe'en" in the middle of the summer has to have people working for it that *ALL* have a few screws loose somewhere.

Feast was actually entertaining, and I've never bothered checking out the sequels.

I think one of the brothers has been obsessed with the Oscar race and has started putting out artsy crap as a result, instead of what brought them to the party which was horror and darker stuff like the Crow.

Logan

[Rob71]

Didn't Ted Turner wind up with alot of MGM's library?

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

I agree with what you said about MGM.

But Weinstein has been circling the bowl for pretty much as long as they have been in existence.

I mean, any company that releases a movie called "Hallowe'en" in the middle of the summer has to have people working for it that *ALL* have a few screws loose somewhere.

I believe the operative expression is, "...Will you freakin' FORGET about the freakin' horror films, already?? "

If anything Dimension was one of their moneymakers that attached them to the real world--
Miramax could give us the green-vegetable foreigns, Sundance-winners and indies, but only when Disney was picking up the checks.
Without it, and with HarvBob paying their own bills, you had a lot of wildly overspent publicity trying to make someone else's movie look like studio mainstream, when it....wasn't, really.
(Eg., ask an animation fan about the W's, and you get "Doogal" and "Hoodwinked" jokes. Every time.)

I think one of the brothers has been obsessed with the Oscar race and has started putting out artsy crap as a result, instead of what brought them to the party which was horror and darker stuff like the Crow.

Oh, say "Weinsteins" and one of the FIRST words that spring to mind is "Oscar obsession".
(They had a taste of it the year Miramax had four of the five nominees the year "English Patient" was up against "Shine", and they've had a Napoleonic taste for "controlling" it ever since.)

It was their attempt to For Your Consideration "bully" the Oscars into ritually rewarding one of their snooty feel-good art films every year because they were "supposed" to that had them barred at the door (with the shortened voting period), and they ended up pushing "The Reader" in last year anyway, even if Hugh Jackman hadn't seen it. (It became a running joke: "O-kayyy, let's hear it, what has Lasse Holstrom directed THIS year?... ")
You don't get a lot of studio love that way, and while they tried hard to market every foreign/indie to the mainstream folks, you can only do so much.

If anything, it was their attempt to make "real" films on their own like Nine (no, the musical) that may have emptied the coffers.
Nine wasn't a good film, but Chicago was (with Disney's money), but still came out of the Weinstein's desire to make their three or four existing proven Disney-money hits over and over again repeatedly on their own.

[Meeklo]

Let's not forget Harvey steamrolled his fat-ass all over what used to be "Grindhouse". They have not seen one single dollar from me for it since it was in theaters, I refused to buy the movies seperately.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by Meeklo

Let's not forget Harvey steamrolled his fat-ass all over what used to be "Grindhouse". They have not seen one single dollar from me for it since it was in theaters, I refused to buy the movies seperately.

The list goes on and on...

Grindhouse being split on DVD/Blu-Ray.

Hallowe'en being released in mid-summer when a mid-late October would have netted them the most amount of profit. I mean really what the f**k were they thinking? Anyone with half a brain would know that releasing them near, y'know... HALLOWE'EN would earn them more money... they jumped right over it releasing it in theaters mid summer, and on DVD in FRICKIN' NOVEMBER!

Wanting to re-edit Fanboys THEIR way and not the way that it was presented. {which is ironic since that's the way they wanted to purchase the film}

Their chronic obsession with getting an Academy Award.

The list {unfortunately} goes on from there.

Logan

[OrlandoEastwood]

Originally Posted by jadedeath

The list goes on and on...

Grindhouse being split on DVD/Blu-Ray.

Hallowe'en being released in mid-summer when a mid-late October would have netted them the most amount of profit. I mean really what the f**k were they thinking? Anyone with half a brain would know that releasing them near, y'know... HALLOWE'EN would earn them more money... they jumped right over it releasing it in theaters mid summer, and on DVD in FRICKIN' NOVEMBER!

...

Their chronic obsession with getting an Academy Award.

The list {unfortunately} goes on from there.

Logan

Well we know that TWC is so broke that they cannot distribute on DVD and Blu-ray. Inglourious Basterds was released by Universal and Halloween II is being released by SONY. They sold off Dragon Dynasty to Vivendi and thank God that they are doing Blu-ray; it's a shame that Dragon Dynasty lost the rights to the Fortune Star films like Police Story.

Plus also, I think TWC also spent way too much on Zack and Miri Make a Porno. It cost like $25 million to make which is the highest budget Kevin Smith had at the time. It seriously did not need to cost that much. I seriously think that they could have made that on the budget Clerks II which was $5 million. I think most of the budget went to Seth Rogen on that one.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by OrlandoEastwood

Plus also, I think TWC also spent way too much on Zack and Miri Make a Porno. It cost like $25 million to make which is the highest budget Kevin Smith had at the time. It seriously did not need to cost that much. I seriously think that they could have made that on the budget Clerks II which was $5 million. I think most of the budget went to Seth Rogen on that one.

Yeah, but Zack and Miri was actually pretty good for what it's worth.

Weinstein could do SO much in order to become innovative, start releasing everything in theaters digitally. Screw film. That'll save them a crapload in costs.

Logan

[Blu-ray Fanatic]

Originally Posted by OrlandoEastwood

Well, seeing as two major studios are mostly going to be closing shop in the next couple years; let us have a discussion on what we think caused their downfall.

MGM:

I personally feel that a lot of the films that they were making were not appealing to me in the slightest. Some of these films being; Agent Cody Banks; Beauty Shop; Blood and Chocolate; College; Superhero Movie; and Who's Your Caddy? to name a few. Except for the 007 films, MGM pretty much shot themselves in the foot and made horrible films. And, if memories serves correctly; wasn't MGM hailed as one of the greatest studios at one point in their history? Yikes.

TWC:

I felt that Harvey was throwing around more money that his studio could make back. Plus, spending a lot of time on shoddy straight to video films like the Pulse and Feast sequels. I was pissed that I had spent $10 on the Feast sequels at Blockbuster when I lived on the Big Island. Plus, Harvey would keep delaying movies and eventually putting up on limited releases with like six theaters screening the film; for example, Fanboys and The Road. If Harvey wanted to keep people; he should have focused on Sin City 2 and had that made ASAP. If I remember correctly, Sin City was like the highest grossing film for TWC back when it first started up.

Whats TWC? Is it Time Warner Cable?

[blu_sharpy]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Fanatic

Whats TWC? Is it Time Warner Cable?

The Weinstein Company

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by EricJ

If anything, it was their attempt to make "real" films on their own like Nine (no, the musical) that may have emptied the coffers.
Nine wasn't a good film, but Chicago was (with Disney's money), but still came out of the Weinstein's desire to make their three or four existing proven Disney-money hits over and over again repeatedly on their own.

Originally Posted by OrlandoEastwood

Plus also, I think TWC also spent way too much on Zack and Miri Make a Porno. It cost like $25 million to make which is the highest budget Kevin Smith had at the time. It seriously did not need to cost that much. I seriously think that they could have made that on the budget Clerks II which was $5 million. I think most of the budget went to Seth Rogen on that one.

"Beat our hits into the ground" case in point:
No check was too great for the W's to spend on Kevin Smith, as long as they could tell the public that they were delivering Another Clerks, Or Maybe Dogma If You Liked That One. (And let's not even get into how much "Clerks II" lost.)
What was it about, and did it have audience appeal?...Who cares? It had Smith's name, so it was Another Clerks, now get that publicity money spent!

[Foggy]

TWC can't afford to put there movies on that many screens, so thats why most there films are limited release, that why Inglorious Basterds was sold to Universal.

[fatediesel]

Originally Posted by EricJ

"Beat our hits into the ground" case in point:
No check was too great for the W's to spend on Kevin Smith, as long as they could tell the public that they were delivering Another Clerks, Or Maybe Dogma If You Liked That One. (And let's not even get into how much "Clerks II" lost.)
What was it about, and did it have audience appeal?...Who cares? It had Smith's name, so it was Another Clerks, now get that publicity money spent!

I don't know how you can fault Kevin Smith for their troubles, and have no idea where you're getting your numbers that show Clerks II losing money. According to IMDB it's budget was $5 million and it grossed over $26 million worldwide, and that doesn't take into account it's home video money. Smith is actually one of the best directors when it comes to making a profit. His movies don't make a ton of money but they are dirt cheap so they end up profitable. Smith's only movie that didn't make a profit was Mallrats, and if you add in it's home video money it likely did make a profit.

[jadedeath]

Originally Posted by EricJ

"Beat our hits into the ground" case in point:
No check was too great for the W's to spend on Kevin Smith, as long as they could tell the public that they were delivering Another Clerks, Or Maybe Dogma If You Liked That One. (And let's not even get into how much "Clerks II" lost.)

Why would we get into something that doesn't exist?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424345/business

They spent 5 million and got back 24... that's a pretty hefty haul and more than making their money back.

Logan

[deadhatetheliving]

They should have gone the route of Lionsgate. Make low budget horror movies for like 5-10Mill that go on to make 20-80Mil. Why wont people learn that horror movies make bank?

[OrlandoEastwood]

Originally Posted by deadhatetheliving

They should have gone the route of Lionsgate. Make low budget horror movies for like 5-10Mill that go on to make 20-80Mil. Why wont people learn that horror movies make bank?

You know, I think that was what Harvey had in mind with doing those Pulse and Feast sequels. I haven't seen the Pulse films at all but I saw all three Feast films. Those sequels suck beyond belief. I couldn't believe how bad they were. Two years of waiting for nothing. I was like; "Lionsgate left these writers to finish the Saw legacy? HOLY S***!"

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by fatediesel

I don't know how you can fault Kevin Smith for their troubles, and have no idea where you're getting your numbers that show Clerks II losing money. According to IMDB it's budget was $5 million and it grossed over $26 million worldwide, and that doesn't take into account it's home video money. Smith is actually one of the best directors when it comes to making a profit. His movies don't make a ton of money but they are dirt cheap so they end up profitable. Smith's only movie that didn't make a profit was Mallrats, and if you add in it's home video money it likely did make a profit.

Only a fanboy would glean half a sentence to think I was saying Something Mean about Kevin Smith.

(Now try going back and reading the rest of the post that complains about the W's two- or three-trick-pony'ing their few existing hits over and over, in the hopes they could make lightning strike multiple times.
Only Harvey and Bob would try remaking "Shall We Dance" in English, and with "Chicago"'s Richard Gere, in the hopes they'd make twice as much money as each did the first time around.)

[deadhatetheliving]

Originally Posted by OrlandoEastwood

You know, I think that was what Harvey had in mind with doing those Pulse and Feast sequels. I haven't seen the Pulse films at all but I saw all three Feast films. Those sequels suck beyond belief. I couldn't believe how bad they were. Two years of waiting for nothing. I was like; "Lionsgate left these writers to finish the Saw legacy? HOLY S***!"

Plus Lionsgate owns a good back catalog of films from Artisan Entertainment. They should have stayed with what got them there--HORROR MOVIES (The Burning)

[wallendo]

As far as MGM is concerned, "MGM" i just a name. The MGM that made all the classic movies in Hollywood's Golden Age died many years ago. Currently, it is just a name which is available to the highest bidder (and has been that way for a long time).

[OrlandoEastwood]

Well, there was a thread on the first page about Hoodwinked 2 getting delayed because The Weinstein Company can't release it. After reading about that, I think the company is closer to getting the axe than I thought. But, the plus side to is of this is that since The Weinstein Company sold off Dragon Dynasty to Vivendi Visual, they are getting to work on Blu-ray releases. We got The 36th Chamber of Shaolin; The Killer; and Tom-Yum-Goong (The Protector) all getting released on Blu-ray. That is awesome. If Harvey held onto the rights, I doubt these would be getting released on Blu-ray at any point in the foreseeable future.

The only thing I worry about with TWC's future film is Grindhouse: Machete. It is supposedly due out April 16th of this year. I am hoping that Harvey can pay for a full nationwide release. If this one gets screwed then I say burn the company down to the ground until there's nothing but ash because he screwed us on Grindhouse getting the split in two.