Picture quality problems, Public Enemies

[ianmac]

Hi

I have noticed some very poor picture break up, banding and distortion on my blu ray Public Enemies.

Examples here:




Interesting that the distortion is only in the picture frame - it doesn't happen in the black bars.

I am playing it on a Denon 3800BD but the problem also shows up on a friends' Pioneer player.

Has anyone had the same problem?

Would I be right in assuming there's no point in swapping it as it will be on all disks?

Many thanks, Ian

[Resettito]

Wow, I think that you definitely have a faulty disc, I've read 3 or 4 comments on this one, and nobody mentioned anything.

[M]

If that's a faulty blu-ray, I hope I never get one, that looks bad.

[vasyndrom]

i remember some artifacts during night car chase in woods, but nothing like i can see in your pics, i'm almost sure as other guys said ... you got faulty disc.

[sapphire_nick]

It was the same on mine. I assumed it was the film but I returned it for a refund. The other problem I had was that the audio on the dialogue would be normal And then suddenly get very loud. Did you notice this?

[WVbkelley]

I didn't notice the banding problem with my Blu-ray copy and the first frame grab I had plenty of detail on the brick wall in the distance.

But, my biggest issue is that I'm not a fan of director Michael Mann using what I would consider sub par hi-def digital cameras. The footage looks like broadcast video, which lacks visual depth compared to the scenes filmed on 35mm.

It's pretty jarring seeing the jump from HD footage and the ones using 35mm film stock. The HD footage is just too constrasty with many highlights blown out and a huge lag video artifact problem throughout, when the camera pans across a scene.

The closing scene when a FBI agent visits Dillinger's girlfriend (Billie Frechette) in jail was filmed in 35mm and it looks great. After watching 90% of the movie filmed in HD and then this final scene I only wish Mann would've shot the entire film in 35mm. But, if he continues to film in HD, then at least process the imagery to look like film.

[WVbkelley]

Mann tested various digital cameras before settling on Sony's F-23. The HD camera can only produce 1920 x 1080 pixles which equals normal Blu-ray quality. While 35mm film captures about 4 times more information than HD. That's why North by Northwest, The Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind were scanned at 8K to insure that every single element of the film could be captured.

[WVbkelley]

Here's the comments from the UK site DVD Times on Public Enemies

Mann has been widely criticised for embracing Digital Video in his recent productions and Public Enemies being shot almost entirely in HD (there are a small number of 35mm shots) proved to be a bone of contention amongst film fans. The problem is that HD-video just doesn’t look film-like enough for many viewers’ sense of aesthetics - especially the way Mann and cinematographer Dante Spinotti use it – and you can certainly see that in this Blu-ray transfer, in particular the way the tonal range tends to look restrictive in certain shots. Contrast looks a little high and highlights can appear blown out, while brightness can appear low because Mann and Spinotti favour using low light conditions in many sequences. This results in a rather gloomy look at times with reasonably low shadow detail (although perhaps more than you’d get from film) but black levels are very strong and only falter on one or two occasions. I did spot some minor brightness flickering in a number of shots, and while there are instances of it occurring earlier in the film, it seems to become more frequent from around the 90minute mark onwards - this is of course, only in the darker scenes. I think the flickering is down to the cinematography/technology of the film and not an encoding issue as you can see the same thing in the film clips featured in the Extra Features present on this disc.

Colours are especially vibrant and have no noise issues; the green scenery of Purvis’ introductory scene positively pop off the screen, while the blue skies and yellowy-grey dirt of Indiana in the opening act look gorgeous – blood too looks very bold. Skin tones look pretty natural, but can occasionally look a little reddish or yellow, or even pallid depending on the look of each scene. Although most people associate Digital Films with an absence of film grain, the truth is that video noise or artificially added grain can give pretty much the same effect. Throughout Public Enemies, not only can you see an extremely light layer of grain/noise that sometimes becomes a heavier texture, you may also spot the odd instance of print damage - mostly in the form of a single nick or fleck here or there. It’s possible that Mann/Spinotti have added grain/noise/damage to the image to blur the lines between digital and film, but they used Sony CineAlta F23 cameras to shoot most of the film and that records to a HD-Cam SR tape, so it’s very likely there was some infinitesimal damage to that tape.

[crich86]

Originally Posted by ianmac

Hi

I have noticed some very poor picture break up, banding and distortion on my blu ray Public Enemies.

Examples here:




Interesting that the distortion is only in the picture frame - it doesn't happen in the black bars.

I am playing it on a Denon 3800BD but the problem also shows up on a friends' Pioneer player.

Has anyone had the same problem?

Would I be right in assuming there's no point in swapping it as it will be on all disks?

Many thanks, Ian

My copy does the exact same thing. I cannot even enjoy the film with all the grain and distortion.

[jaykays hat]

I found that some of the scenes were really grainy and thought I had a dodgy disk? I am using a sony BDP-300 with the latest firmware. The griany bits are probably the worst I have seen on Blu Ray.

I only watched half of this film as I found it boring and I didn't think that the HD filming suited this film.

[McCrutchy]

I'll chime in and say that I hated the HDV presentation in Public Enemies when I saw it at the theater. I don't remember Collateral (Mann's first HDV project) affecting me in the same way, but here, the smoothed image, blurred motion and profound lack of depth in the print felt like I was watching a History Channel re-enactment and not a film. I'm sure some will say that this is Mann's intention, but I found it far too distracting to enjoy the film, and it probably negatively impacted my feelings about it.

At least Heat was shot on film...

[Golden Sparrow]

I just watched it last night and right at the 1 hour 28 minute mark, it freezes up on me (watching it on a PS3)... the disc was brand new and just unwrapped. I ejected it and inspected for dirt or smudges but there was no indication of physical damage of any sort. I tried it again and ended up having to skip to the next chapter and scan backwards. It would make it back to around the 1 hour 31 minute mark before it would freeze again. I just thought that based on the screen shots above (exactly my freezing problem area) that this was more than a coincidence.

Oh and other discs have worked and continue to work fine on the same PS3, so I'm not faulting it right now.

[JBL4645]

Originally Posted by WVbkelley

I didn't notice the banding problem with my Blu-ray copy and the first frame grab I had plenty of detail on the brick wall in the distance.

But, my biggest issue is that I'm not a fan of director Michael Mann using what I would consider sub par hi-def digital cameras. The footage looks like broadcast video, which lacks visual depth compared to the scenes filmed on 35mm.

It's pretty jarring seeing the jump from HD footage and the ones using 35mm film stock. The HD footage is just too constrasty with many highlights blown out and a huge lag video artifact problem throughout, when the camera pans across a scene.

The closing scene when a FBI agent visits Dillinger's girlfriend (Billie Frechette) in jail was filmed in 35mm and it looks great. After watching 90% of the movie filmed in HD and then this final scene I only wish Mann would've shot the entire film in 35mm. But, if he continues to film in HD, then at least process the imagery to look like film.

Same here as well!

I’ll look at my region 2 DVD copy, I brought it on DVD and week later I brought my first ever Bluray player, but I will not buy this on Bluray.

I’m not a fan of the Panavison Genesis and this is the third time I think Michael Mann has used this.

[JBL4645]

I’ve just had look to see if this was inherent on the digital master for the transfer copies of DVD/Bluray no issues. It might be dirt on the disc or has come dislodged and stuck to the lens and that would be rather uncommon but fixable.

If it is the disc one out of so many get it replaced for free take back the dodgy copy.

Otherwise I concur with WVbkelley, its like watching a cheap episode of the Bill on that rubbish ITV a big huge YUCK thumbs down!

Some of the wide now and then open daylight shots look (well okay kind of) but as soon as its night time shots everything turns to crap! The motion looks jittery its something that won’t happen in Real Life.

Also his style of doing the same thing more or less over again, but some might disagree with me. The bank heist chapter 3 reminded me of Heat it has some clichés that just made me cringe.

Also some Heat score pops up at the start in the laundry room, in few parts.

Mimi Vice filmed in digital
Collateral filmed in digital

Okay skin tone textures look okay in some parts, but it its jetty motion that just says Cloverfield without the monster! I’m sure glad that monster ate Hud at the end because th guy just obviously hasn’t heard of a tripod for filming.

So when does HEAT come out on Bluray region B sometime soon I hope? And I wonder if they are using the same transfer not that I have problem with standard definition.

I saw HEAT (projected four times) at the local ABC Bournemouth screen 1 Dolby stereo A type, they might have used SR cards in the Dolby CP200 processor, they just didn’t have Dolby digital DA20 at the time, but it sounded great at the front clear LCR details. Projector was a Phillips DP75 in screen 1, never cared much for screen 2 and 3.

I saw once more in screen 2 when it moved from screen 1 after weeks, weeks playing in screen 1, I know screen 2 and had SR cards as I’ve seen then in the CP55 before once been shown around. As for screen 1, yes those where the days a good film would be played in its finest screen. This is something that rarely happens now today.

[JBL4645]

Originally Posted by Golden Sparrow

I just watched it last night and right at the 1 hour 28 minute mark, it freezes up on me (watching it on a PS3)... the disc was brand new and just unwrapped. I ejected it and inspected for dirt or smudges but there was no indication of physical damage of any sort. I tried it again and ended up having to skip to the next chapter and scan backwards. It would make it back to around the 1 hour 31 minute mark before it would freeze again. I just thought that based on the screen shots above (exactly my freezing problem area) that this was more than a coincidence.

Oh and other discs have worked and continue to work fine on the same PS3, so I'm not faulting it right now.

That’s wired? Did you also open the player up to inspect for hair or dirt as that will get inside believe me!

I once was playing Vertigo DVD many years ago before HD discs! It produced green pixels and locking-up! I looked at the disc which was spotless. Yes it happened again and its never happened before.

Okay I opened up my Sony DVD player looked around the area where the laser was and BINGO! I saw single fine hair laying across the laser that was stuck! I had to be careful at removing this as this wasn’t 35mm projector where you can just get in there fine brash and clean dirt!

I had to use strip of paper that I made pointed and go in and lift off the hair as I didn’t want to damage the laser. It was tricky. Once removed I placed the cover over the disc compartment and played the DVD again, wham perfect!

I then placed the cover over the whole player and relaxed back into the film. SIGH

I think opening up a Sony PS3 will be real dogs’ dinner to inspect for cleaning. It’s the design shape of the player, over most conventional players. If it does in fact have dirt inside.

[blu_sharpy]

Originally Posted by JBL4645

So when does HEAT come out on Bluray region B sometime soon I hope?

It IS out and it looks just fine. The reviews compliment that statement.

[Daunty]

I'm having the same problem and I have the Dutch version. Is this normal or just a mistake from Universal?

[Billy & Dutch]

Originally Posted by Golden Sparrow

I just watched it last night and right at the 1 hour 28 minute mark, it freezes up on me (watching it on a PS3)... the disc was brand new and just unwrapped. I ejected it and inspected for dirt or smudges but there was no indication of physical damage of any sort. I tried it again and ended up having to skip to the next chapter and scan backwards. It would make it back to around the 1 hour 31 minute mark before it would freeze again. I just thought that based on the screen shots above (exactly my freezing problem area) that this was more than a coincidence.

Oh and other discs have worked and continue to work fine on the same PS3, so I'm not faulting it right now.

I'm having the same issue here, at around 1h24 though, it will freeze again at 1h30-something. I'll get my copy exchanged.

Strangely, I didn't notice the issue from the OP, but I'll double check again.

[e_h_r_o_n]

I just rented the film last night and had the same problems. At first I thought it might be digital grain that was added in for the night scenes to give at a more filmic quality, but as in the examples above, it looks like a grid of pixelation appears over the whole frame. Most of these instances occurred in night shots, but some happened during the daytime. I can't imagine it being what the filmmakers wanted since the picture quality is solid and well defined through most of the film.

Still trying to understand if this is a 'bad copy' or what since we're seeing instances of this all over the place on different continents. The disk and my player are free of dirt and hairs, and like I said, it was popping up infrequently. Nevertheless, it was enough to seriously distract me from the story.

[Q?]

I honestly cannot remember seeing this in the theater...
I would have noticed such a thing...