Blu-ray music discs - 5.1 Surround vs Stereo

[Bruce Morrison]

Although I invested in Blu-ray primarily for watching films, I also enjoy classical music concerts and opera on DVD, and latterly on Blu-ray as well. Having started a music collection on Blu-ray, I have a couple of basic technical questions.

1. Previously when playing music DVDs, I've always selected the PCM stereo track rather than the Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 surround track. This was partly because I've always had an instinctive feeling that music is best heard in good old-fashioned stereo, but it was also because I read somewhere that, on DVDs, the PCM stereo track has a superior "resolution" (I hope that's the correct term) compared with the surround track(s).

My understanding is that, on Blu-ray discs, this distinction is no longer true, and the surround tracks will sound every bit as good as the PCM stereo track. Is this true? If so, I might be inclined to experiment more by listening to the surround tracks on Blu-rays and see what I think.

2. Whereas films of any age will benefit from being remastered in high definition for Blu-ray, my understanding is that this will not be true of material shot in standard definition video (whether PAL or NTSC). In other words, it isn't possible to extract any greater resolution out of SD video material.

If so, that presumably means that Blu-ray releases of music and opera will be confined to material that was actually shot in high definition digital video. Is this correct?

That makes me wonder when it became the norm to shoot music concerts and opera performances in high definition digital video. My impression is that this probably dates from the early 2000's, but I'd be interested to have a more exact answer if possible.

Sorry for the length of the post, but I'll look forward to any responses.

[BIslander]

Stereo PCM is high resolution, generally better quality than lossy DD 5.1 or DTS used on concert DVDs. But, with Blu-ray, you can get high resolution multichannel playback with 5.1 PCM, TrueHD, and dts-MA encoding.

As for video, concerts that were shot on film will look great as HD releases. But, there's only so much that can be done to improve a 4:3 480i original for a concert that was shot on video.

[Bruce Morrison]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Stereo PCM is high resolution, generally better quality than lossy DD 5.1 or DTS used on concert DVDs. But, with Blu-ray, you can get high resolution multichannel playback with 5.1 PCM, TrueHD, and dts-MA encoding.

As for video, concerts that were shot on film will look great as HD releases. But, there's only so much that can be done to improve a 4:3 480i original for a concert that was shot on video.

Thanks very much, that answers both my questions and confirms what I'd understood!

I'd just be interested to know when shooting concerts and opera performances in high definition digital video became the norm. I've done a quick survey of performances of my favourite operas released on Blu-ray so far, and the earliest one dates from 2002. So would that be around the time when shooting in HD digital video started to be the standard approach for the major production companies?

[Codyblaze]

Originally Posted by Bruce Morrison

Thanks very much, that answers both my questions and confirms what I'd understood!

I'd just be interested to know when shooting concerts and opera performances in high definition digital video became the norm. I've done a quick survey of performances of my favourite operas released on Blu-ray so far, and the earliest one dates from 2002. So would that be around the time when shooting in HD digital video started to be the standard approach for the major production companies?

Not that I'm much of an opera fan, but the majority of the concert films I own were shot on film, not VHS. Thus they look incredible on Blu (there are only three that I've updated, Gimme Shelter, Monterrey Pop and John Mayer). I would imagine concerts filmed for TV (such as for PBS) would be VHS sourced, and wouldn't benefit from the blu upgrade, but anything on film should see an improvement. The three concerts I've upgraded show great improvments in PQ over their DVD counterparts, but what really shines is the AQ. Monterrey Pop is just night and day with the difference.

[Bruce Morrison]

Originally Posted by Codyblaze

Not that I'm much of an opera fan, but the majority of the concert films I own were shot on film, not VHS. Thus they look incredible on Blu (there are only three that I've updated, Gimme Shelter, Monterrey Pop and John Mayer). I would imagine concerts filmed for TV (such as for PBS) would be VHS sourced, and wouldn't benefit from the blu upgrade, but anything on film should see an improvement. The three concerts I've upgraded show great improvments in PQ over their DVD counterparts, but what really shines is the AQ. Monterrey Pop is just night and day with the difference.

Yes you're certainly right that anything shot on film should benefit from being remastered for Blu-ray. Unfortunately, as you say, most concert and opera performances captured for television have been shot on video, so only those more recent ones shot on HD digital video will be worth re-releasing on Blu-ray. As I mentioned, it seems that 2002 was about the time when HD digital video came into common use by the production companies, so anything dating from before then, and certainly dating back to the 90's and earlier seems destined to remain on DVD only.

[Yeha-Noha]

I am an opera fan. I have collected several on Blu-ray. Most of them are Opus Arte releases. The BD operas absolutely blow away my old collection on DVD. None of my BD operas, however, were shot on film. They are live recordings and thus are in 1080i. Still, the PQ is stunning. The same goes for the audio. The 5.0 and 5.1 PCM tracks have superb sound quality that put to shame the DVD lossy 5.1 tracks. I rarely listen to operas in my DVD collection any more.

[dboyle]

Originally Posted by Codyblaze

Not that I'm much of an opera fan, but the majority of the concert films I own were shot on film, not VHS. Thus they look incredible on Blu (there are only three that I've updated, Gimme Shelter, Monterrey Pop and John Mayer). I would imagine concerts filmed for TV (such as for PBS) would be VHS sourced, and wouldn't benefit from the blu upgrade, but anything on film should see an improvement. The three concerts I've upgraded show great improvments in PQ over their DVD counterparts, but what really shines is the AQ. Monterrey Pop is just night and day with the difference.

This is my understanding as well - most shot on film and not video.

[Bruce Morrison]

Originally Posted by dboyle

This is my understanding as well - most shot on film and not video.

This may be true for most types of music - but not classical unfortunately, and certainly not live opera performances in the theatre (as opposed to films made of operas). Opera in the theatre is virtually always shot on video.

[dobyblue]

PCM on DVD isn't necessarily high resolution...a lot of the time it is 16-bit/48khz which is for all intents and purposes CD quality.

There are DVD titles that have 24-bit PCM tracks, usually 24/48.

DVD can get up to 24/96 stereo PCM, but those releases are few and far between. I believe some Neil Young DVD's have 24/96 PCM stereo tracks...Neil has always been a big supporter of quality.

The biggest difference between stereo and surround on DVD is that you cannot do LOSSLESS multi-channel on DVD. I have always found PCM stereo to be the preferred option with only a few exceptions...usually when a dts 24/96 track is available like Peter Gabriel's "Play - The Videos" or when full bitrate dts is used like the NIN release of "...and all that could have been".

Lossless > lossy is usually a pretty safe rule of thumb.