Maximum Data Storage availability?

[Balthasar]

Recently in Japan (im pretty sure), sony unvieled a blu-ray disc showing that it could hold 200Gig of data. Although at this point in time to begin with it would be safe to say that initially when the global expansion of Blu-Ray does happen the data sizes will be

25Gig and 50Gig

Will the new sizes, once shown to be stable and viable, (with the additional layers of >2) be available for personal use such as storage?

[thunderhawk]

Single layer: 25 GB
Dual layer: 50 GB
Quad layer: 100 GB
8 layer: 200 GB

I think thats where it ends. Not?


But, what I wonder, is it really GIGABYTE?
Because, most DVDs are labelled as 4.7 GB, but you can only get 4.34 GB on it. :?

[Alex Pallas]

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

Because, most DVDs are labelled as 4.7 GB, but you can only get 4.34 GB on it. :?

all three of my Maxtor external harddrives are the same way
120 is really 110-1
200 is really 189
300 is really 279

[PanonMB]

The differences in stated and actual capacity of HDD:s and discs
has probably to do with HDD:s and discs defining gigabyte
as being a billion bytes (the correct form of gigabyte) whereas
Windows reports sizes in "false" gigabytes, nowadays
called "gibibytes" (see wikipedia).

A "false" gigabyte, or gibibyte, is not a billion but
1073741824 or 2 to the power of 30.
That means the size in gibibytes as reported by Windows,
which Windows still calls gigabytes, is 93% of the stated size in
real gigabytes of the HDD or disc.

Historically this mess began with the kilobyte which with its
amount of 1024 (2^10) bytes approximated 1000 bytes enough
to be called a kilobyte, nowadays kibibyte.

Why these powers of 2? Well computers like powers of
two really much because of the binary system.

Thanks for reading this elaboration

[Shadowself]

While most people do confuse gigabyte with the new gibibyte definition, the real difference between the stated size of a drive (be it a floppy [8, 5.25 or 3.5 inch], Zip, orb, HDD, CD, DVD or BD or HD-DVD) is between the size of the raw drive and the usable volume of a formatted drive.

Space on the disk (no matter what kind of disk) is taken up in the formatting process. The percentage loss is less than it was 20 years ago due to better formatting techniques and smaller relative block and sector sizes, but there is still a noticeable loss of space from the stated "raw" sizes.

Is it possible to utilize 100% of the stated "raw" size of a drive? Yes, sometimes. However, it depends upon the drive and the use. There are some systems which under the proper conditions can utilize 100% of the stated "raw" size of a drive (i.e., 100 GB of a 100 GB drive). However, in this case the computer, the software drivers and such have to keep track of exactly how things are laid out on the disk. This is definitely not a trivial task, nor is it for the faint of heart or the uninitiated.

It is much simpler -- and 99.999% of the time, safer -- to just lose that "overhead space" to the formatting process and let the standard firmware in the drive and the standard OS software drivers handle the data on the disk. Then just move on with a usable space that is slightly smaller than the stated "raw" size of the drive.

[Shadowself]

For a point of historical reference...
IBM, Winchester and others started using kilobyte to mean 1,000 bytes and megabyte to mean 1,000,000 bytes back in the late 70s and early 80s. Seagate, Western Digital and others adopted the same usage at about the same time or shortly thereafter.

Virtually everyone (inlcuding OS makers such as IBM, Microsoft, Apple, DEC, Data General, CDC, etc., etc.) had adopted this standard by the mid 80s.

From the mid 80s on, tape and HDD sizes were in 1,000s units and RAM was in 1024s units.

[INCGGAMING]

HD-DVD might come out but thinking it is going to suceed, but Blueray will stick out and beat HD-DVD. HD-DVD doesn't hold that much and I really don't care for space but the good thing about Blue-ray is it can record more on a DVD Recorder. Not only that but you can backup the stuff on your pc. It's soo simple and java will make it that way. Of course Microsoft will always merge with whoever makes more money "reminds me of how they got Halo" but anyways HD-DVD will be like betamax ("a bad memory") and Blue-ray will be the future and maybe everyone will go to dvd's for hardrive space, and it will be soo reliable that it will toss the usb hardrives out the door. However this time the companies and the people will have something to agree upon that Blueray is the next modern dvd people will use at their convenience.

[thunderhawk]

Originally Posted by INCGGAMING

I really don't care for space but the good thing about Blue-ray is it can record more on a DVD Recorder.

Where did you get that?
Blu-ray Discs can't be recorded on current DVD recorders... (!)

[brian_p_sully]

How many layers will the frist BD-R discs have? Just the one or willit be more?I assume the first BD-ROM discs will be 2 so the MPAA buddies can fit "high-def" content in their MPEG-2 format.

[zombie]

Initial BDROMs are expected to be single-layer. Some speculate it may take years for multi-layer discs to be available on the consumer level. I suspect we'll be able to purchase dual-layer BDROMs within a year of launch.

[brian_p_sully]

I'm pretty sure BD-ROM is dual layer to start with, just like commercial DVD-ROMs are. I recently read somewhere that Hollywood was planning on putting the Widescreen and normal versions of the same film (in hi-def) on the same disc as well as approx 1hr of bonus features. Since they are using MPEG-2 compression (same as DVDs today) that all takes up well over 25GB (15GB movie + 15 GB ws movie + 8 GB bonus = 38GB). So I belive BD-ROM will be 50GB.

I do optical storage though for business and am more interested in BD-R. Anyone else with news or info on this?

[thunderhawk]

Yes. I'm not certain about the discs but the players will support dual layer from the beginning and more layers with firmware upgrades I believe...

[zombie]

Originally Posted by brian_p_sully

I'm pretty sure BD-ROM is dual layer to start with, just like commercial DVD-ROMs are.

The first DVDs were released in March '97, it wasn't until December '97 that the first dual-layer DVD was released ("Contact"). So for eight months, the only DVDs you could buy were single-layer ones.

[mlts22]

I wonder how many layers a BD drive can support for reading? The more the merrier, I say.

[hijak]

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

Yes. I'm not certain about the discs but the players will support dual layer from the beginning and more layers with firmware upgrades I believe...

so the hardware for the first out blu-ray players can support more layers (only requiring a firmware update) ???

are you sure? :/ other people say they will only support 2 layers, and if they release movies on 3 layered disks later on, those early buyers will be stuffed?

[Blue]

There will have to be some effective upgrade path - or else there will be a mess and if that happens Holographic disk may sneak in and I don't think Sony are about to assist that move. However I think 50GB will keep us happy for a little while - for me, for at least a month after I get my first burner - thwn I will want more!

[markw]

That would be great if all it requires is a firmware upgrade. It's enough not knowing who will win the format war and the possiblility of holographic. I definitely want to go with blu-ray but am scared I'll get a 2 layer player/recorder and then a year or more down the road there's 3, 4 layers, etc. I just assumed I'd need a new player then. As well, my concern is even though it's starting at dual layer that won't catch on that much and then 4 layer may be out and be the first blu-ray player to become commonplace.

[thunderhawk]

I really HOPE firmware updates will allow first-generation players to become future-generation players... I hope it'll also be a way to 'customise' your player, so you can add codecs to the machine for example.

[blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd]

Originally Posted by Balthasar

Recently in Japan (im pretty sure), sony unvieled a blu-ray disc showing that it could hold 200Gig of data. Although at this point in time to begin with it would be safe to say that initially when the global expansion of Blu-Ray does happen the data sizes will be

25Gig and 50Gig

Will the new sizes, once shown to be stable and viable, (with the additional layers of >2) be available for personal use such as storage?

blue ray will wipe out hddvd i was reading on the hddvd sight the other day that there was to much space and that much space wouldent be needed b/s more space the better b/c hd takes up a lot of space + you will have better ps3 games they can be in better deatell and longer harder games i think hdvd is alrdy dead they just dont know yet they are olngy backed up by 2 or 3 film companeys and 1or 2 computer companys that suck ass so their dead they just dont know it the inverstors profet will be in det it is like that when the vhs came out their was one other format i forgot what it was but it was dead before it came out hmm blu-ray all the way!!!!!

[crazy_neutrino]

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

But, what I wonder, is it really GIGABYTE?
Because, most DVDs are labelled as 4.7 GB, but you can only get 4.34 GB on it. :?

Hi Thunderhawk,
4.7 GB is the whole storage capacity of a DVD-(+) R
The disc contains three areas:
1) Lead-in Zone
-centre of the disc
-the player first tries to find the Lead-in Zone
-contains Physical Format Information (here is the missing recording capacity you mentioned)
this area is very important because gives the main information about the type of DVD to the player
and contains the security codes
2) Data Zone
-located after the Lead-in Zone
-contains the user data after recording (and this is your play-ground as a “user”)
3) Lead out Zone
-contains no actual information

Best!